)]}'
{"/COMMIT_MSG":[{"author":{"_account_id":2284,"name":"Eoghan Glynn","email":"eglynn@redhat.com","username":"eglynn"},"change_message_id":"2def8f1202904b4476c54b285a074b1629cb7c52","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":9,"context_line":"Beyond the Four Opens, the OpenStack community (and the Technical"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"Committee as its direct representation) operates on a lot of"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"unwritten principles, which were transmitted by oral tradition"},{"line_number":12,"context_line":"by the elders and appear from time to time as a snippet of wisdom"},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"in the middle of a TC meeting."},{"line_number":14,"context_line":""},{"line_number":15,"context_line":"It is more than time for us to document those principles, to make"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_27dccae3","line":12,"updated":"2016-09-14 20:51:23.000000000","message":"s/elders/long-time contributors/","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"}],"reference/principles.rst":[{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"2e108ace95f563ee7d93d0568d51a6463a87e12d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Democracy"},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"---------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"9a89bdaa_25b92dcc","line":33,"updated":"2016-09-10 16:31:07.000000000","message":"all I can say is its about time this particular part has been written down and I can\u0027t thiink of any better way to put it.  +1!","commit_id":"9856be6f94986a524bfd1d994343a17dc3891a8e"},{"author":{"_account_id":9664,"name":"amrith","email":"amrith.kumar@gmail.com","username":"amrith"},"change_message_id":"4eb18d313c56da273e3b449bb3f0e7b836b73666","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Democracy"},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"---------"},{"line_number":37,"context_line":""},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"While we strive to build community consensus around decisions, all decisions"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"1ac06dbe_bb3492fb","line":35,"range":{"start_line":35,"start_character":0,"end_line":35,"end_character":9},"updated":"2016-08-24 15:01:21.000000000","message":"to be clear, I suggest that this be changed to \"Representative Democracy\" to communicate clearly that the intent is not to achieve \"Direct Democracy\".","commit_id":"9856be6f94986a524bfd1d994343a17dc3891a8e"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"2e108ace95f563ee7d93d0568d51a6463a87e12d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Democracy"},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"---------"},{"line_number":37,"context_line":""},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"While we strive to build community consensus around decisions, all decisions"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"9a89bdaa_e544a5b8","line":35,"range":{"start_line":35,"start_character":0,"end_line":35,"end_character":9},"in_reply_to":"1ac06dbe_bb3492fb","updated":"2016-09-10 16:31:07.000000000","message":"Agree with amrith.  That is precisely what we have in OpenStack, and precisely what occurs in a whole lot of OpenStack.\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy\n\nHowever, I think there should be some woridng around individual teams and leadership expectations to operate as a direct democracy within those selected by their peers into respective core teams.  Maybe not all projects operate this way (which would be a shame) but all policies (In kolla where I have the most direct experience) are decided by vote.  Even the TC operates as a direct democracy.\n\nA direct democracy (majority rules) is the only way I have found in operating 3 projects in OpenStack to solve logams.  Not everyone is happy with the result,but they are more happy then, say if I dictated an answer.\n\nNot quite sure how to fit that in to this document.  I\u0027d like to see it (or a response from the author or coauthors saying it doesn\u0027t belong).\n\nPerhaps something like:\n\n\"All teams leadership groups such as the Technical Committee and individual project  core teams are expected to operate as a direct democracy.  Where consensus cannot be reached in a fashion suitable to the leadership team, a majority vote should be held and act as binding to all parties.\"\n\nDoug is eloquent - maybe he can tidy that up :)\n\nMaybe I\u0027m way off base here with how I operate prjects I have PTLed and how the old guard has operated projects.\n\nOrthogonal thought:\n\nFWIW I think we as an organization need to weaken the \"power\" of the PTLs and make them just another one of the core team with extra responsibilities unrelated to dictating policy (if they are in the big tent).  Maybe that should go in in different document or be a goal, or be acted upon.  I\u0027m not sure where it fits in the governance repository.\n\nI know that was a bit rantish but thanks for reading :)","commit_id":"9856be6f94986a524bfd1d994343a17dc3891a8e"},{"author":{"_account_id":9664,"name":"amrith","email":"amrith.kumar@gmail.com","username":"amrith"},"change_message_id":"4eb18d313c56da273e3b449bb3f0e7b836b73666","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":44,"context_line":"The voice of the contributor community is essential, and forms the basis"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"of our democracy. A person with a thousand patches in an OpenStack release"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"should not have a voice as thousand times as strong. Contribution does not"},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"mean only writing patches, although patches included in a release is the"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":"most straight-forward measure of contribution to track. Efforts at limiting"},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"the electorate to quantifiable contribution, no matter the form, are intended"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"only to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"1ac06dbe_fb156a49","line":47,"range":{"start_line":47,"start_character":66,"end_line":47,"end_character":68},"updated":"2016-08-24 15:01:21.000000000","message":"are","commit_id":"9856be6f94986a524bfd1d994343a17dc3891a8e"},{"author":{"_account_id":6159,"name":"Flavio Percoco Premoli","display_name":"flaper87","email":"flavio.percoco@flyrlabs.com","username":"flaper87"},"change_message_id":"faa7de3900ff81c495b84e1c3975e38b0100adeb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders in OpenStack should not consider their role \u0027for life\u0027,"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"should cultivate the next generation of leaders, and should step down"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"considerately."},{"line_number":62,"context_line":""},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"1ac06dbe_0b456516","line":60,"range":{"start_line":60,"start_character":7,"end_line":60,"end_character":47},"updated":"2016-08-20 20:55:47.000000000","message":"Wonder if we can expand this point a bit and include mentorship as part of it. We\u0027ve worked with other communities long and hard to mentor contributors and be a good starting point for many engineers and leaders.\n\nI\u0027d love to see this be one of our principle but not sure if it entirely fits the purpose of this document.","commit_id":"9856be6f94986a524bfd1d994343a17dc3891a8e"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"2e108ace95f563ee7d93d0568d51a6463a87e12d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders in OpenStack should not consider their role \u0027for life\u0027,"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"should cultivate the next generation of leaders, and should step down"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"considerately."},{"line_number":62,"context_line":""},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"9a89bdaa_e5a58547","line":61,"range":{"start_line":60,"start_character":60,"end_line":61,"end_character":13},"updated":"2016-09-10 16:31:07.000000000","message":"I\u0027m not quite sure what the meaning of this is.\n\nA PTL doesn\u0027t step down[1]  typically (unless they have some type of personal emergency or work crisis) - they pass on the baton.  Since that is an idiom, and I believe our governance documents should be idiom free, how about:\n\"Hand over their duties and responsibilities considerate of the leadership pipeline they have cultivated.\"\n\nThe problem I have with \"considerably.\" is what does that mean exactly?  It doesn\u0027t specify who.\n\n[1] https://www.google.com/search?sourceid\u003dchrome-psyapi2\u0026ion\u003d1\u0026espv\u003d2\u0026ie\u003dUTF-8\u0026q\u003ddefine%20step%20down\u0026oq\u003ddefine%20step%20down\u0026aqs\u003dchrome..69i57j0l5.4302j0j9\n\nFWIW this document should include some text that OpenStack has a normal mechanism for managing people stepping back from a leadershp position (probably in a different section).  The TC handles this well, and the various project teams have sorted out how to handle core reviewer resignations.  I think the wording can be soft - mostly informational - something like:\n\n\"If in our capacity as leaders we face some type of personal crisis or lose interest in what we do, or for any other reason feel the need to step back from a project, OpenStack has solutions for that.  Leaders should feel free to make use of these solutions if the need arises.\"\n\nAgain, Doug could probably reword that into something more elegant.","commit_id":"9856be6f94986a524bfd1d994343a17dc3891a8e"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"2e108ace95f563ee7d93d0568d51a6463a87e12d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":""},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"9a89bdaa_c5588159","line":110,"range":{"start_line":108,"start_character":0,"end_line":110,"end_character":16},"updated":"2016-09-10 16:31:07.000000000","message":"It took me a long time to parse this sentence (mostly because of the word aegis and also the loaded idiom choice in the first place).  Being a native English speaker and struggling here, I suspect ESL folks will struggle.  Any chance we could get something a  little less complex (and dense with US/EMEA based philosophies?)","commit_id":"9856be6f94986a524bfd1d994343a17dc3891a8e"},{"author":{"_account_id":6159,"name":"Flavio Percoco Premoli","display_name":"flaper87","email":"flavio.percoco@flyrlabs.com","username":"flaper87"},"change_message_id":"faa7de3900ff81c495b84e1c3975e38b0100adeb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[],"source_content_type":"","patch_set":1,"id":"1ac06dbe_ab56d1cf","line":117,"updated":"2016-08-20 20:55:47.000000000","message":"We\u0027ve worked hard to create a healthy community that folks should feel good being part of. I\u0027d like to see this as part of our principles. Perhaps something along these lines:\n\n\"The OpenStack community is (and should continue to be) a friendly and healthy environment for its contributors to work. Contributors are expected to assume good faith from each other and act respectfully\"","commit_id":"9856be6f94986a524bfd1d994343a17dc3891a8e"},{"author":{"_account_id":6159,"name":"Flavio Percoco Premoli","display_name":"flaper87","email":"flavio.percoco@flyrlabs.com","username":"flaper87"},"change_message_id":"11a39f35307aea5f7908150adbaef33405266837","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders in OpenStack should not consider their role \u0027for life\u0027,"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"should cultivate the next generation of leaders, and should step down"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"considerately."},{"line_number":62,"context_line":""},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"fa7ab95a_274b1cb2","line":60,"range":{"start_line":60,"start_character":7,"end_line":60,"end_character":35},"updated":"2016-08-31 12:24:15.000000000","message":"Restoring my previous comment. Here\u0027s a draft to address it:\n\n\"Long term strength of OpenStack rests in democratically elected leaders\nwho change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors.\nOpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent\nor otherwise. \n\nLeaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal to the OpenStack community) to help cultivating the next generation of contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027. Leaders, specifically, should step down considerately.\"","commit_id":"3a19e43fcdf47792f35860b4dba3528d6b97ce1e"},{"author":{"_account_id":9664,"name":"amrith","email":"amrith.kumar@gmail.com","username":"amrith"},"change_message_id":"fdaf70ec6040c2f245d43c4146f67643d45af2ce","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders in OpenStack should not consider their role \u0027for life\u0027,"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"should cultivate the next generation of leaders, and should step down"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"considerately."},{"line_number":62,"context_line":""},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"fa7ab95a_e1866e12","line":60,"range":{"start_line":60,"start_character":7,"end_line":60,"end_character":35},"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_274b1cb2","updated":"2016-08-31 16:33:47.000000000","message":"I appreciate where Flavio is going with this and would like to suggest some changes to his proposed verbiage.\n\n\"In the long term, the strength of OpenStack lies in democratically elected leaders who change over time, to remain representative of the body of contributors. OpenStack does not have, and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent or otherwise. \n\nLeaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role to be \u0027for life\u0027. Leaders, specifically, should step down considerately.\"\n\nI do however want to question some of what Flavio says here.\n\nDo we care about mentoring activities outside the OpenStack community and should we bother to call out the distinction?","commit_id":"3a19e43fcdf47792f35860b4dba3528d6b97ce1e"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"7ffdf5e8e41b06f3c8ddf0753396f37f76412036","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":70,"context_line":"-------------------"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":""},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"products on or with OpenStack successful."},{"line_number":74,"context_line":""},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"Level Playing Field"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"-------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"fa7ab95a_c41fce07","line":73,"updated":"2016-08-31 12:09:23.000000000","message":"Make successful or support, but not support successful.\n\nI\u0027ll make another patchset","commit_id":"3a19e43fcdf47792f35860b4dba3528d6b97ce1e"},{"author":{"_account_id":6159,"name":"Flavio Percoco Premoli","display_name":"flaper87","email":"flavio.percoco@flyrlabs.com","username":"flaper87"},"change_message_id":"11a39f35307aea5f7908150adbaef33405266837","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[],"source_content_type":"","patch_set":2,"id":"fa7ab95a_47ed808d","line":117,"updated":"2016-08-31 12:24:15.000000000","message":"I had another comment w.r.t good faith too. I\u0027ll propose it as a follow-up patch","commit_id":"3a19e43fcdf47792f35860b4dba3528d6b97ce1e"},{"author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"change_message_id":"b4609da78e2e720a40cd56f80fb85460018f0dba","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_ddc931ae","line":33,"updated":"2016-09-01 05:45:35.000000000","message":"It sort of feels like this paragraph ends on a odd note. Yes I understand what it\u0027s trying to say, but it feels like the last sentence is sort of a elaboration of \u0027yes we want strong voices, but no we don\u0027t want strong voices pushing their project team or corporate values\u0027; maybe a rewrite of this into something else would be appropriate.","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"813f5cb72148d41c0c98676283f04d93508bf962","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_1c0a638a","line":33,"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_9d5fa974","updated":"2016-09-02 13:03:50.000000000","message":"Agreed the wording there is not perfect. Feel free to suggest alternate wording !","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"change_message_id":"03af250fe10c3d0e203ef44f90bc8f57590e8666","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_9d5fa974","line":33,"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_ddc931ae","updated":"2016-09-01 05:46:15.000000000","message":"\u0027values or agenda\u0027.","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"00e664c1e9363f0c16aec96342ee0134ac1354a2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivating the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down considerately."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_c913500c","line":61,"range":{"start_line":61,"start_character":31,"end_line":61,"end_character":47},"updated":"2016-08-31 17:13:36.000000000","message":"\"help cultivate\"","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"813f5cb72148d41c0c98676283f04d93508bf962","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivating the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down considerately."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_7cf9af7f","line":61,"range":{"start_line":61,"start_character":31,"end_line":61,"end_character":47},"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_c913500c","updated":"2016-09-02 13:03:50.000000000","message":"Will fix","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"00e664c1e9363f0c16aec96342ee0134ac1354a2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivating the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down considerately."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_69a084a6","line":63,"range":{"start_line":63,"start_character":40,"end_line":63,"end_character":53},"updated":"2016-08-31 17:13:36.000000000","message":"Didn\u0027t we have this as \"gracefully\" at one point? I\u0027m not sure \"considerately\" has the same connotation.","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":9664,"name":"amrith","email":"amrith.kumar@gmail.com","username":"amrith"},"change_message_id":"07e502ab5cf2d42a30acdef95b1a4fcf72b05269","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivating the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down considerately."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_ebe0f698","line":63,"range":{"start_line":63,"start_character":40,"end_line":63,"end_character":53},"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_69a084a6","updated":"2016-09-01 00:42:32.000000000","message":"I agree that considerately is an odd one here but I can\u0027t think of a better word. It isn\u0027t gracefully as much as I think it should be proactively, or in a timely manner, or something to that effect.","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"813f5cb72148d41c0c98676283f04d93508bf962","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivating the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down considerately."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_dc439bad","line":63,"range":{"start_line":63,"start_character":40,"end_line":63,"end_character":53},"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_bd01cd06","updated":"2016-09-02 13:03:50.000000000","message":"Let\u0027s go with \"gracefully\", which I think is well-understood.","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"change_message_id":"5bc2db8fd5a0e0ca5b9e55abcaa4f0ca38355822","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivating the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down considerately."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_bd01cd06","line":63,"range":{"start_line":63,"start_character":40,"end_line":63,"end_character":53},"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_ebe0f698","updated":"2016-09-01 05:25:55.000000000","message":"Ya, this line is a little odd, perhaps not even needed? \n\nI think the paragraph has the same value without it IMHO.","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":9664,"name":"amrith","email":"amrith.kumar@gmail.com","username":"amrith"},"change_message_id":"07e502ab5cf2d42a30acdef95b1a4fcf72b05269","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"our existing and future users when making decisions."},{"line_number":70,"context_line":""},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"Empowering Business"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"-------------------"},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_8b020a3d","line":71,"range":{"start_line":71,"start_character":0,"end_line":71,"end_character":18},"updated":"2016-09-01 00:42:32.000000000","message":"I believe this should be merged with the next one.\n\nLike, \"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build products on or with OpenStack, and help them be successful. However, OpenStack should not empower one business over another, or else the project is not truly a place where everyone can collaborate. While the needs of the\nconstituent businesses are essential, they must be balanced with each other lest OpenStack decisions unwittingly be made by unelected people behind closed doors.\"","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"813f5cb72148d41c0c98676283f04d93508bf962","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"our existing and future users when making decisions."},{"line_number":70,"context_line":""},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"Empowering Business"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"-------------------"},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_5c46ab7b","line":71,"range":{"start_line":71,"start_character":0,"end_line":71,"end_character":18},"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_8b020a3d","updated":"2016-09-02 13:03:50.000000000","message":"I like that.","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"change_message_id":"5bc2db8fd5a0e0ca5b9e55abcaa4f0ca38355822","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":100,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"and Open Community. Code drops and decisions pre-made outside of OpenStack"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"governance are rejected because they by defintion did not include the"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":"community."},{"line_number":106,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_dd569105","line":103,"updated":"2016-09-01 05:25:55.000000000","message":"\u0027pre-made\u0027 feels odd here; unsure if it was just supposed to be \u0027made\u0027?","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"813f5cb72148d41c0c98676283f04d93508bf962","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":100,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"and Open Community. Code drops and decisions pre-made outside of OpenStack"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"governance are rejected because they by defintion did not include the"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":"community."},{"line_number":106,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"fa7ab95a_dc52bb34","line":103,"in_reply_to":"fa7ab95a_dd569105","updated":"2016-09-02 13:03:50.000000000","message":"Will fix","commit_id":"2280361d83ee3f790ea42e98929b0b5950fad990"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":1,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":2,"context_line":"Guiding Principles"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_5b4aa084","line":2,"range":{"start_line":2,"start_character":0,"end_line":2,"end_character":18},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"Use sentence case for headings.\nFor example, Guiding principles\nI will only mention it here but it applies to all headings.\nSee the general style guide for headings and titles here:\nhttp://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/writing-style/headings.html#headings","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":1,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":2,"context_line":"Guiding Principles"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_ee78e12d","line":2,"range":{"start_line":2,"start_character":0,"end_line":2,"end_character":18},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_5b4aa084","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"I don\u0027t think we generally follow those style guides in this repository.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"b73b65a481cbe110d263e87901077058efd68bda","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":1,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":2,"context_line":"Guiding Principles"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_fd9d83bc","line":2,"range":{"start_line":2,"start_character":0,"end_line":2,"end_character":18},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_ee78e12d","updated":"2016-09-08 14:21:56.000000000","message":"Is there a good reason not to? Consistency across the project is nice.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":"decisions. These are not aspirational. Rather, they form the bedrock upon"},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"which the OpenStack community and software are built."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"First and foremost, OpenStack follows :doc:`reference/opens`. All four of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_333c322f","line":6,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"Paul, I think the point is that if we weren\u0027t already following these principles, then stating them here would make them something to strive towards (i.e., aspirational). These are already part of the project and community. We already follow them. We\u0027re not hoping to trend towards these or to start following any of them.\n\nIt\u0027s true that guiding principles inform future conduct and decisions. It\u0027s also true that they may have informed decisions we as a community have already made. From the perspective of the TC, they *have* informed decisions and that fact makes these non-aspirational.\n\nI accept that you don\u0027t think these are presently true. To you then, these seem aspirational. It\u0027s all about perspective. I think the TC here is trying to point out that from their perspective, these are reality (hence the idea of documenting these rather than proposing them).","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":"decisions. These are not aspirational. Rather, they form the bedrock upon"},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"which the OpenStack community and software are built."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"First and foremost, OpenStack follows :doc:`reference/opens`. All four of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_bb148cf5","line":6,"range":{"start_line":6,"start_character":11,"end_line":6,"end_character":17},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"These principles","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":"decisions. These are not aspirational. Rather, they form the bedrock upon"},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"which the OpenStack community and software are built."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"First and foremost, OpenStack follows :doc:`reference/opens`. All four of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_02baac6e","line":6,"range":{"start_line":6,"start_character":11,"end_line":6,"end_character":17},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_bb148cf5","updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"What\u0027s the point of saying \"These are not aspirational\"? If the point is we are describing the current state, I believe that some of the points don\u0027t necessarily reflect the current state. Isn\u0027t the whole point of guiding principles to hold out some guideposts for hopeful future conduct?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":330,"name":"John Dickinson","email":"me@not.mn","username":"notmyname"},"change_message_id":"4c790820525e774de2a12d57cac648dd42228b3a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_d1e3ec31","line":13,"updated":"2016-09-05 21:36:11.000000000","message":"I\u0027m not sure exactly how the two things mentioned (one openstack vs independent projects) are in opposition. Independent projects can be unified in a singular mission, just as individual players on a team work together for a common goal. Its the mission that unities us; if we have the same mission, then we are unified.\n\nA reading of the current language could imply that installing one or some OpenStack projects without others being deployed is not a supported or expected use case.\n\nWhen I hear the phrase \"independent projects\", I understand this to mean that projects have a stable API for all operations and the API is used by other projects (instead of known internals or shared state). Is that what\u0027s being opposed here?\n\nCould you help me understand what is meant here in more detail?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_5349b6cf","line":13,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"Paul, there\u0027s a logical fallacy in saying that something is a product if it has competing products. When the first \"cellular phone\" was created, was it not a product until there were other versions of it being sold?\n\nWith that in mind, allow me to ask you a question: The way to discover OpenStack product competitors, I suppose, would be to define how OpenStack is used. Is it meant to provide infrastructure as a service, is it meant to provide a platform as a service? Both? None? Must the competitors be F/OSS?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"d3934afaeecadc78211e306a791c7d934c34c473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_2bf784f6","line":13,"updated":"2016-09-09 00:02:00.000000000","message":"We are not one OpenStack.\n\nWe have consistantly shown that we are a \"core\" or \"base\" set of projects with other projects in a surrounding eco-system.\n\nIf this is a document that is representing the current state of OpenStack - we need to be 100% honest - this is not aspirational.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9236d0d97336d3df60a399b08480842677b4a918","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_a11655ef","line":13,"updated":"2016-09-09 01:21:22.000000000","message":"We are not one OpenStack.\n\nWe have consistantly shown that we are a \"core\" or \"base\" set of projects with other projects in a surrounding eco-system.\n\nIf this is a document that is representing the current state of OpenStack - we need to be 100% honest - this is not aspirational.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":330,"name":"John Dickinson","email":"me@not.mn","username":"notmyname"},"change_message_id":"d77ec4cab8ceca50b8df77f0987beef83cfcd0fd","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b9038141","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_089a7463","updated":"2016-09-06 17:10:52.000000000","message":"Ok. Being more explicit about \"one openstack\" meaning a common governance model would be good.\n\nProposed alternate working for this section:\n\nOpenStack is a group of projects unified by a common mission and a single governance structure.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_ee22a100","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_089a7463","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"Right, this list of principles doesn\u0027t have anything to do with deployment or packaging. It\u0027s about how the community interacts, how decisions are made, and the approach to collaborating between contributors.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7,"name":"Jay Pipes","email":"jaypipes@gmail.com","username":"jaypipes"},"change_message_id":"27345b968a1b588ac59507ed19a6974232d238e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_5219e720","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_089a7463","updated":"2016-09-08 18:43:38.000000000","message":"When was it decided in 2011 that OpenStack \"was a single product\"? The genesis of OpenStack was Swift and Nova. Neither of those projects then, or today more than 5 years later, are part of a single \"product\". Nova has zero direct links with Swift. Swift has zero links with Nova. As it should be.\n\nIt\u0027s like saying Apache Cassandra and Apache Web Server form a single \"product\"...\n\nThis just is not true and doesn\u0027t reflect reality in the OpenStack space. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with OpenStack projects being well integrated and tested -- where it makes sense. But to my knowledge, there has never been a single \"OpenStack product\". The projects in the OpenStack ecosystem have varying degrees of integration between them, but as a whole they represent a *toolkit* of datacenter and cloud management tools that users can use as they see fit and businesses can combine, improve, and extend into products that meet their customers\u0027 needs.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"a81c4142ab08afbccb0bdd1af78a3b863f85bdf3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_e4192f24","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_3aba5ec1","updated":"2016-09-09 12:37:50.000000000","message":"Is vim, less, awk, sed, and emacs one product? A vote or edict does not automatically make things one product.  I would argue that OpenStack is closer to being a single, very large toolkit (instead of a product) that can be configured and used in many different ways.  For those that do consider it a single product -- have you tried watching someone brand new to OpenStack try to roll it out (not devstack)?  If you still consider it a product, what are the competing products and how easy are they to use?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"161b8a07b97ba385911099c30e03b75c88dab32e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_3aba5ec1","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_a11655ef","updated":"2016-09-09 08:21:52.000000000","message":"@Jay: The question was brought to a vote at the PPB in June 2011 (the question was actually raised by John). The clear decision was that OpenStack is *not* a collection of independent projects that work together for some level of integration and releases. It *is* a single product made of a lot of independent, but cooperating, components. See http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-28-20.06.html . That decision was never reversed, so those are the principles we operate under, and it is one of the principles we need to document. Failure to document it properly in the past is why we are here to discuss the veracity of it.\n\n@Graham: this document is the principles we operate under. Those principles may need to be changed to represent the \"current state of OpenStack\". But first step is documenting the status quo, based on history.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"92bd0c61b8e54b4582f4ceef5dd4e9ba8ba4d9f4","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_4278b98f","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_b9038141","updated":"2016-09-06 19:33:52.000000000","message":"The way I see it is we\u0027re one project organized into teams building separate components.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"0fcddb01437152efc2d1307a00a47e995c0db6ae","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_089a7463","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_d1e3ec31","updated":"2016-09-06 10:11:41.000000000","message":"This principle states that \"OpenStack\" is a thing, rather than just a collection of unrelated things. It reiterates that OpenStack is a single product, under a central governance, made of a lot of cooperating components (as was originally decided in 2011).\n\nThose components can be deployed based on your needs, you certainly don\u0027t have to deploy them all. Those components can (and certainly should imho) have a stable API for all operations and the API is used by other projects (instead of known internals or shared state). There is no opposition to that at all implied in that text: this is a governance document, so \"independent\" is meant here from a governance standpoint, not an architectural standpoint. Feel free to suggest an alternate wording that reinforces that.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"ae761dc6bc2c1b87c1060a969b1a69f6ee2a04d8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_e729f638","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_d8508861","updated":"2016-09-12 07:00:09.000000000","message":"Agree that \"project\" (or \"product\") is too overloaded for the first sentence. How about \"OpenStack is one community with one common mission, producing one framework of collaborating components\" ? I would also avoid the term \"independent\" (which as John pointed out can be read from an architectural perspective) -- maybe say \"does not make OpenStack a loose collection of disconnected projects\".","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7,"name":"Jay Pipes","email":"jaypipes@gmail.com","username":"jaypipes"},"change_message_id":"49b3b96853723872f00c130602a4def7983ca3dd","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_d8508861","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_e4192f24","updated":"2016-09-09 16:15:19.000000000","message":"@Paul: Yes, my point precisely. That said, emacs is a great operating system :P","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":964,"name":"Anne Gentle","email":"annegentle@justwriteclick.com","username":"annegentle"},"change_message_id":"75c5f4c6a4c7f66f2346cb07bf63397686f53c90","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":10,"context_line":"them are essential, and most of the principles described in this document"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b1db95ec","line":13,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_e729f638","updated":"2016-09-12 12:57:32.000000000","message":"I think \"framework of collaborating components\" works here.\n\nI don\u0027t think this document needs to state the negative side. Reading one of the books from Zingerman\u0027s press, I realize it\u0027s important to recognize that problems can be stated negatively or positively, and bigger and harder problems are good to have as we grow.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":11,"context_line":"derive from them."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":""},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_d7604438","line":14,"range":{"start_line":14,"start_character":0,"end_line":14,"end_character":13},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"According to OpenStack\u0027s RST guideline:\nSecond level headings should use a ~~~~~~~\nunderline. \nIt applies to all second level headings but I will only mention it once.\n\nSee, http://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/rst-conv/titles.html","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_7346bac0","line":16,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"I don\u0027t agree that using \"project\" here is a poor choice of terms. Neutron is a project in OpenStack and it has many projects that belong to it and make up one larger project of sorts (in a loose sense). I think what may be confusing about this sentance is \"common mission\". \"Common\" here implies that there is more than one of a thing. If OpenStack is a single project, it has a mission. That mission is OpenStack\u0027s mission because it is a mission that is common to the projects of which OpenStack is composed. I agree that there\u0027s a little bit of dissonance here, but not for the same reason as others.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_fb929456","line":16,"range":{"start_line":16,"start_character":48,"end_line":16,"end_character":64},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"Organizing","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"fb4eb2efdb0b1c0d042f9ea1e11c9157da7295c3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_f5b42036","line":16,"range":{"start_line":16,"start_character":0,"end_line":16,"end_character":69},"updated":"2016-09-06 22:49:10.000000000","message":"The possible interpretation of contradictions aside... I think one of the things I struggle with here is a lack of clarity about OpenStack these days.  Is it Nova and it\u0027s supporting services (some of the rehashing of base services has given that impression).  Is it \"a cloud\", is it \"a private cloud\" is it a \"collection of open source projects that may or may not be used to build an OpenStack cloud\".\n\nMy point here is that there have been numerous discussions, governance statements etc over the past year that frankly has made OpenStack less and less defined to some of us.  To say the \"one project\" doesn\u0027t quite resonate.\n\nThe response from most of the TC any time these questions are raised by others in the community is \"you aren\u0027t paying attention\" or worse making people feel as though they are inferior because they didn\u0027t understand the intent of all the various postings or pick the precise response on the ML that fit the argument at the time.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_eeac6137","line":16,"range":{"start_line":16,"start_character":48,"end_line":16,"end_character":64},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_3287a7d8","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"Confederation has a connotation of projects having more independence than I think we\u0027re trying to convey here.\n\n\"Project\" is a flexible term that fits both the overall efforts and individual team efforts. In the governance context of this patch I don\u0027t see it as confusing to use project in the way this paragraph does. Are you pointing out a way you think it is confusing, or are you objecting to calling OpenStack \"one project\"?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"b354e462e5723ba787e0f0e728d934617af3254c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_cafcc474","line":16,"range":{"start_line":16,"start_character":48,"end_line":16,"end_character":64},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_eeac6137","updated":"2016-09-07 13:01:31.000000000","message":"I find it confusing to see the same term (\u0027project\u0027) used to describe both OpenStack and it constituent activities, with the resulting contradiction of it being both one project and multiple projects. IMO a different term could be used without weakening the important message that all activities are united in pursuing a common goal.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":13,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":""},{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_3287a7d8","line":16,"range":{"start_line":16,"start_character":48,"end_line":16,"end_character":64},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_fb929456","updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"This contradicts the language used in [1] which clearly describes OpenStack as being composed of multiple projects. I suggest you find a term other than \u0027project\u0027 to describe the unified thing - actually, \u0027confederation\u0027 might be an appropriate term.\n\n[1] https://www.openstack.org/software/","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"d3934afaeecadc78211e306a791c7d934c34c473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_4bdcc874","line":19,"updated":"2016-09-09 00:02:00.000000000","message":"Again - we might be aspiring to this, but this is not the current reality.\n\nWe have projects aimed at different scales of cloud - not the current mission of a cloud that can be one machine, or thousands.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9236d0d97336d3df60a399b08480842677b4a918","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_c1d19931","line":19,"updated":"2016-09-09 01:21:22.000000000","message":"Again - we might be aspiring to this, but this is not the current reality.\n\nWe have projects aimed at different scales of cloud - not the current mission of a cloud that can be one machine, or thousands.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":16,"context_line":"OpenStack is one project with a common mission. The organization into"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"separate source code repositories and teams allows contributors to focus"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_2567baeb","line":19,"updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"I suggest: \"OpenStack strives to be one project with a common mission\".  It seems that the Big Tent approach has let in a lot of components that are likely not all in complete agreement.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"d3934afaeecadc78211e306a791c7d934c34c473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"OpenStack leaders are expected to put the needs of OpenStack first in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_6bd98c83","line":21,"updated":"2016-09-09 00:02:00.000000000","message":"John - I think it is important - especially for smaller projects, where companies may or may not think of allowing PTLs to work full time, or even a large % of their time upstream.\n\nFor larger projects this is a given - but for others, having something to point a manager at can be useful.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9236d0d97336d3df60a399b08480842677b4a918","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"OpenStack leaders are expected to put the needs of OpenStack first in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_e1d69d26","line":21,"updated":"2016-09-09 01:21:22.000000000","message":"John - I think it is important - especially for smaller projects, where companies may or may not think of allowing PTLs to work full time, or even a large % of their time upstream.\n\nFor larger projects this is a given - but for others, having something to point a manager at can be useful.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"fb4eb2efdb0b1c0d042f9ea1e11c9157da7295c3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"OpenStack leaders are expected to put the needs of OpenStack first in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_152ee442","line":21,"range":{"start_line":21,"start_character":0,"end_line":21,"end_character":51},"updated":"2016-09-06 22:49:10.000000000","message":"Why is company even third here?  Frankly if you\u0027re a \"leader\" in an Open Source project I think you have a responsibility  to focus on 1 and 2.. and that if you happen to do some other things in the interest of your Company it should be fairly far removed.\n\nI\u0027d rather see things like community growth (not increasing number of people but helping people be better members), education fostering etc.  \n\nI realize that for *some* that may fall in to \"OpenStack\" first but I think you need to be explicit and call those sorts of things out and that they are far more important than a Company\u0027s priorities.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":970,"name":"Dean Troyer","email":"dtroyer@gmail.com","username":"dtroyer"},"change_message_id":"cb952ede0e47436d0df5c348797e118974e704cd","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"OpenStack leaders are expected to put the needs of OpenStack first in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_4c5b55f6","line":21,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_152ee442","updated":"2016-09-07 16:40:25.000000000","message":"John, I think spelling this out is necessary for the companies themselves.  When I had an opportunity to talk with a number of potential employers last year it became clear to me that we can not assume that our corporate sponsors are all even aware of this at the direct management levels.  The board reps may get it, but they are often Director or VP or C-level executives and not the ones directly dealing with the development community directly.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"9fa8385607fd414cfe413a3411fe2420395fafe7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":18,"context_line":"on their areas of interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"OpenStack leaders are expected to put the needs of OpenStack first in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_1cfc093d","line":21,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_4c5b55f6","updated":"2016-09-08 00:17:47.000000000","message":"Hey Dean,\n\nI think maybe I didn\u0027t articulate my point there very well.  Yeah, I hear ya about there being misunderstanding there, totally agree.  I was actually trying to say that in my opinion the \"Company\" isn\u0027t even third in the list of priorities.  I\u0027d argue that if you\u0027re in a leadership role then company interests are all but taken off the table (unless they happen to mesh with the first two priorities).  I know that\u0027s extreme, I\u0027m using extremes to make a point.  I do think that company for someobody in a \"leadership role\" in the community is last and if that is third it\u0027s a pretty distant third.\n\nNot sure if we\u0027re aligned there or not?  I think we are.. but maybe not.  would love to clarify on IRC if I\u0027m not getting it and we\u0027re actually disagreeing here.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":19,"context_line":"loose confederation of independent projects."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":""},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"OpenStack leaders are expected to put the needs of OpenStack first in"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"their decision making, before the needs of any individual project team."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_525fcb40","line":22,"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"This section only seems to speak about \u0027leaders\u0027 - is there any corresponding guidance for other contributors?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":25,"context_line":"their decision making, before the needs of any individual project team."},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. All three needs are"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":"essential to OpenStack\u0027s health, but the broad OpenStack needs are the"},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"hardest and have the least direct representation. People who need to be"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_7b092495","line":29,"range":{"start_line":28,"start_character":33,"end_line":29,"end_character":7},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"It is unclear what is meant here. They are the hardest to establish, to fulfill, to identify?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. All three needs are"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":"essential to OpenStack\u0027s health, but the broad OpenStack needs are the"},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"hardest and have the least direct representation. People who need to be"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_7b7e84e5","line":30,"range":{"start_line":29,"start_character":50,"end_line":30,"end_character":15},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"Unclear. Do you mean: People who are strong voices for their project, or People who strongly voice the needs of their project?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"fb4eb2efdb0b1c0d042f9ea1e11c9157da7295c3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":28,"context_line":"essential to OpenStack\u0027s health, but the broad OpenStack needs are the"},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"hardest and have the least direct representation. People who need to be"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_15bc24db","line":32,"range":{"start_line":31,"start_character":0,"end_line":32,"end_character":75},"updated":"2016-09-06 22:49:10.000000000","message":"I like the extra note you have here about requirements before accepting a leadership role.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":29,"context_line":"hardest and have the least direct representation. People who need to be"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_3b75dcf8","line":32,"range":{"start_line":32,"start_character":5,"end_line":32,"end_character":17},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"aside","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9236d0d97336d3df60a399b08480842677b4a918","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_01dc6145","line":33,"updated":"2016-09-09 01:21:22.000000000","message":"Honestly - this feels a bit aspirational. (Not the company last, that is a known thing).\n The OpenStack First bit is missing currently, and has been for a while. This is normal, as we grow, but does not seemed to be practiced by all projects, or enforced.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"d3934afaeecadc78211e306a791c7d934c34c473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"a strong voice for their project team or their company are highly valued,"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"but should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"needs to the side at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":""},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_8be6d042","line":33,"updated":"2016-09-09 00:02:00.000000000","message":"Honestly - this feels a bit aspirational. (Not the company last, that is a known thing).\n The OpenStack First bit is missing currently, and has been for a while. This is normal, as we grow, but does not seemed to be practiced by all projects, or enforced.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":44,"context_line":"The voice of the contributor community is essential, and forms the basis"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"of our democracy. A person with a thousand patches in an OpenStack release"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"should not have a voice as thousand times as strong. Contribution does not"},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"mean only writing patches, although patches included in a release are the"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":"most straight-forward measure of contribution to track. Efforts at limiting"},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"the electorate to quantifiable contribution, no matter the form, are intended"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"only to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"worth of the various different forms of community contributions."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_080a7421","line":48,"range":{"start_line":47,"start_character":36,"end_line":48,"end_character":54},"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"is this statement accurate? is patch count easier to track than review count?\n\nIMO this discussion about patches is unnecessary. The point is one contributor gets one vote regardless of their level of contribution in whatever form.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":44,"context_line":"The voice of the contributor community is essential, and forms the basis"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"of our democracy. A person with a thousand patches in an OpenStack release"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"should not have a voice as thousand times as strong. Contribution does not"},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"mean only writing patches, although patches included in a release are the"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":"most straight-forward measure of contribution to track. Efforts at limiting"},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"the electorate to quantifiable contribution, no matter the form, are intended"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"only to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"worth of the various different forms of community contributions."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_ce0ddd3f","line":48,"range":{"start_line":47,"start_character":36,"end_line":48,"end_character":54},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_080a7421","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"This sentence is here because of the reference to quantifiable contributions in the next sentence. Maybe it can be moved to a parenthetical statement, though.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"773e29fcaf4f893a7558170d5146d97f1a796a89","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":44,"context_line":"The voice of the contributor community is essential, and forms the basis"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"of our democracy. A person with a thousand patches in an OpenStack release"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"should not have a voice as thousand times as strong. Contribution does not"},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"mean only writing patches, although patches included in a release are the"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":"most straight-forward measure of contribution to track. Efforts at limiting"},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"the electorate to quantifiable contribution, no matter the form, are intended"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"only to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"worth of the various different forms of community contributions."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_61c37f38","line":48,"range":{"start_line":47,"start_character":36,"end_line":48,"end_character":54},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_c28a9b1a","updated":"2016-09-08 17:44:50.000000000","message":"Amen to this last statement - which is why I would like to see those who contribute to OpenStack - but not by contributing code - also considered equals in the community","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"b73b65a481cbe110d263e87901077058efd68bda","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":44,"context_line":"The voice of the contributor community is essential, and forms the basis"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"of our democracy. A person with a thousand patches in an OpenStack release"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"should not have a voice as thousand times as strong. Contribution does not"},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"mean only writing patches, although patches included in a release are the"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":"most straight-forward measure of contribution to track. Efforts at limiting"},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"the electorate to quantifiable contribution, no matter the form, are intended"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"only to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"worth of the various different forms of community contributions."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_c28a9b1a","line":48,"range":{"start_line":47,"start_character":36,"end_line":48,"end_character":54},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_ce0ddd3f","updated":"2016-09-08 14:21:56.000000000","message":"I agree that the second part of this sentence has questionable relevance and accuracy. Perhaps it could be truncated to achieve the intended meaning without the possible controversy? Something like:\n\n\"A person with a thousand patches in an OpenStack release should not have a voice a thousand times as strong. Contribution does not mean only writing or reviewing patches.\"","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":46,"context_line":"should not have a voice as thousand times as strong. Contribution does not"},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"mean only writing patches, although patches included in a release are the"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":"most straight-forward measure of contribution to track. Efforts at limiting"},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"the electorate to quantifiable contribution, no matter the form, are intended"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"only to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"worth of the various different forms of community contributions."},{"line_number":52,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_15de0d3f","line":49,"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"meaning is unclear here - the goal would not be to limit the contributions of the electorate, but to limit the membership of the electorate. Perhaps you mean:\n\n  Efforts to limit the electorate to those who make quantifiable contributions, ...","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":46,"context_line":"should not have a voice as thousand times as strong. Contribution does not"},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"mean only writing patches, although patches included in a release are the"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":"most straight-forward measure of contribution to track. Efforts at limiting"},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"the electorate to quantifiable contribution, no matter the form, are intended"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"only to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"worth of the various different forms of community contributions."},{"line_number":52,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_ee21c1b5","line":49,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_15de0d3f","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"I agree, your proposed rewording is better.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":53,"context_line":"Changes in Leadership are Good"},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"------------------------------"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":""},{"line_number":56,"context_line":"Long term strength of OpenStack rests in democratically elected leaders"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b54ac1aa","line":56,"range":{"start_line":56,"start_character":0,"end_line":56,"end_character":31},"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"Please make this statement more precise. The long term strength of OpenStack relies on far more than its leaders.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":53,"context_line":"Changes in Leadership are Good"},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"------------------------------"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":""},{"line_number":56,"context_line":"Long term strength of OpenStack rests in democratically elected leaders"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_bbed6c8d","line":56,"range":{"start_line":56,"start_character":0,"end_line":56,"end_character":9},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"The long term","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":53,"context_line":"Changes in Leadership are Good"},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"------------------------------"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":""},{"line_number":56,"context_line":"Long term strength of OpenStack rests in democratically elected leaders"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_3bfa3c43","line":56,"range":{"start_line":56,"start_character":41,"end_line":56,"end_character":55},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"its democratically","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":53,"context_line":"Changes in Leadership are Good"},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"------------------------------"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":""},{"line_number":56,"context_line":"Long term strength of OpenStack rests in democratically elected leaders"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_f92189fc","line":56,"range":{"start_line":56,"start_character":0,"end_line":56,"end_character":31},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_b54ac1aa","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"What this is trying to say is that it\u0027s important for us to have the ability to change leadership over time. So the strength doesn\u0027t rest in the leadership itself, but in our practice of electing leaders democratically and having good transitions when new leaders are elected. I agree, that could be said more clearly.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":56,"context_line":"Long term strength of OpenStack rests in democratically elected leaders"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_bba48c57","line":59,"range":{"start_line":59,"start_character":22,"end_line":59,"end_character":51},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":", and other community members,","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":57,"context_line":"who change over time to remain representative of the body of contributors."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":"OpenStack does not have and does not want any sort of dictator, benevolent"},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_5bbc606c","line":61,"range":{"start_line":60,"start_character":50,"end_line":61,"end_character":27},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":", external or internal to the OpenStack community,","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_9b6d0807","line":62,"range":{"start_line":62,"start_character":60,"end_line":62,"end_character":70},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"as lifetime appointment","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b942a13c","line":62,"range":{"start_line":62,"start_character":60,"end_line":62,"end_character":70},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_9b6d0807","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"We don\u0027t generally appoint people to any roles, so I\u0027m not sure that\u0027s quite the right word but I do agree this could be said better. Maybe \"No one should consider their role as permanent.\" would work?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":59,"context_line":"or otherwise. Leaders (and other community members) in OpenStack are"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_a8355fa9","line":62,"range":{"start_line":62,"start_character":60,"end_line":62,"end_character":70},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_b942a13c","updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"Is there a problem with folks considering their role \u0027for life\u0027? Would something like \"some periodic turnover of leaders is healthy for the community\" work here?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"fb4eb2efdb0b1c0d042f9ea1e11c9157da7295c3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":60,"context_line":"encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_55978c39","line":63,"range":{"start_line":63,"start_character":0,"end_line":63,"end_character":51},"updated":"2016-09-06 22:49:10.000000000","message":"These are good points IMO, I don\u0027t know that in reality we are as good about this as we should be, but that\u0027s not the point.  You\u0027ve captured some good things here I think.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"fb4eb2efdb0b1c0d042f9ea1e11c9157da7295c3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_f5bfc0a7","line":65,"range":{"start_line":65,"start_character":0,"end_line":65,"end_character":32},"updated":"2016-09-06 22:49:10.000000000","message":"I TOTALLY agree with the statement, but have issues because well... \"who\u0027s the user\".  Recent discussions I\u0027ve had it\u0027s been Public Cloud (not Private), or Nova deployers, not other deployments without Nova.\n\nThis goes back to my statement earlier that we don\u0027t as a community have a clear understanding or agreement on *what* OpenStack really is any more I don\u0027t think.  Maybe it\u0027s just me.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9236d0d97336d3df60a399b08480842677b4a918","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_21e165ff","line":65,"updated":"2016-09-09 01:21:22.000000000","message":"I agree with John here.\n\nIs it built for the deployer who wants a simple compute + networking stack, or is it for the user who wants to bolt on extras from the openstack/* ecosystem?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"d3934afaeecadc78211e306a791c7d934c34c473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_abe39432","line":65,"updated":"2016-09-09 00:02:00.000000000","message":"I agree with John here.\n\nIs it built for the deployer who wants a simple compute + networking stack, or is it for the user who wants to bolt on extras from the openstack/* ecosystem?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_93117eb2","line":65,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"I won\u0027t pretend to have an answer, but I\u0027ll point out that saying \"public cloud\", \"private cloud\", \"nova deployers\", \"non-nova deployers\" seems to be the wrong way to define this. What I think you\u0027re tyring to get at, John, is that there are many users:\n\n- Cloud operators: people deploying and maintaining some, or all, of OpenStack projects\n- Cloud users: people actually using the cloud deployed by Cloud operators\n- more?\n\nI think we need to be honest that there\u0027s no *one* persona. This has lead to some dissonance and a lot of strife from different folks. Often times project teams focus on one or the other usually to the detriment of someone. It\u0027s a problem, and maybe the Product Working Group can really help us sort this out (I think they have been helping in all candor).","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"change_message_id":"021089ef8cc980a1a2e9a4c3fea3f51a9179ade7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role \u0027for life\u0027."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":""},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_07da3117","line":65,"range":{"start_line":65,"start_character":0,"end_line":65,"end_character":32},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_f5bfc0a7","updated":"2016-09-07 06:04:40.000000000","message":"Not just u IMHO (also me and others trying to figure it out that I\u0027ve talked to, big tent IMHO is good and bad, dilution, even if intending well, comes with it\u0027s side-effects after all).","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"our existing and future users when making decisions."},{"line_number":70,"context_line":""},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"Empowering Businesses, on a Level Playing Field"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"-----------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_1758ec31","line":69,"range":{"start_line":68,"start_character":42,"end_line":69,"end_character":52},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"The needs of our existing and future users should be factored in when making decisions.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"fb4eb2efdb0b1c0d042f9ea1e11c9157da7295c3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"our existing and future users when making decisions."},{"line_number":70,"context_line":""},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"Empowering Businesses, on a Level Playing Field"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"-----------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_1506e485","line":69,"range":{"start_line":68,"start_character":0,"end_line":69,"end_character":52},"updated":"2016-09-06 22:49:10.000000000","message":"Yes, \"built to be used\" but the problem I keep running in to is \"used for what\".  This is particularly complex in my opinion because over the years we\u0027ve strived to be something for everyone.  Which means there\u0027s less and less of a clear indication of what we really are.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"our existing and future users when making decisions."},{"line_number":70,"context_line":""},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"Empowering Businesses, on a Level Playing Field"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"-----------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_c89e23b8","line":69,"range":{"start_line":68,"start_character":0,"end_line":69,"end_character":52},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_1506e485","updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"maybe change \"future\" to \"anticipated\"?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":65,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":""},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"OpenStack is ultimately built to be used. We need to factor the needs of"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"our existing and future users when making decisions."},{"line_number":70,"context_line":""},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"Empowering Businesses, on a Level Playing Field"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"-----------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_99723dac","line":69,"range":{"start_line":68,"start_character":42,"end_line":69,"end_character":52},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_1758ec31","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"Why rewrite this to make it passive?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":71,"context_line":"Empowering Businesses, on a Level Playing Field"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"-----------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"products on or with OpenStack, and help them be successful. However,"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"OpenStack should not empower one business over another, or else the project"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"is not truly a place where everyone can collaborate. While the needs of the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_d79be4c7","line":74,"range":{"start_line":74,"start_character":9,"end_line":74,"end_character":18},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"beginning,","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"products on or with OpenStack, and help them be successful. However,"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"OpenStack should not empower one business over another, or else the project"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"is not truly a place where everyone can collaborate. While the needs of the"},{"line_number":78,"context_line":"constituent businesses are essential, they must be balanced with each other"},{"line_number":79,"context_line":"lest OpenStack decisions unwittingly be made by unelected people behind"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b31682a5","line":76,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"John, I like the idea of calling the components \"services\". I think \"OpenStack Ecosystem\" is simultaneously different and much larger than the \"OpenStack Project\" that is being described here and above.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"products on or with OpenStack, and help them be successful. However,"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"OpenStack should not empower one business over another, or else the project"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"is not truly a place where everyone can collaborate. While the needs of the"},{"line_number":78,"context_line":"constituent businesses are essential, they must be balanced with each other"},{"line_number":79,"context_line":"lest OpenStack decisions unwittingly be made by unelected people behind"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_48971c90","line":76,"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"Use of \u0027project\u0027 is confusing.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"b354e462e5723ba787e0f0e728d934617af3254c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"products on or with OpenStack, and help them be successful. However,"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"OpenStack should not empower one business over another, or else the project"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"is not truly a place where everyone can collaborate. While the needs of the"},{"line_number":78,"context_line":"constituent businesses are essential, they must be balanced with each other"},{"line_number":79,"context_line":"lest OpenStack decisions unwittingly be made by unelected people behind"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_8a655c1f","line":76,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_399cd1bf","updated":"2016-09-07 13:01:31.000000000","message":"I found the use of \u0027project\u0027 confusing above, as commented at line 16, and confusing here for the same reason.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"products on or with OpenStack, and help them be successful. However,"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"OpenStack should not empower one business over another, or else the project"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"is not truly a place where everyone can collaborate. While the needs of the"},{"line_number":78,"context_line":"constituent businesses are essential, they must be balanced with each other"},{"line_number":79,"context_line":"lest OpenStack decisions unwittingly be made by unelected people behind"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_399cd1bf","line":76,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_48971c90","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"Given that we\u0027ve said \"OpenStack is one project\" above, can you elaborate on how this use is confusing here?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"b73b65a481cbe110d263e87901077058efd68bda","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"From the beginning OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"products on or with OpenStack, and help them be successful. However,"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"OpenStack should not empower one business over another, or else the project"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"is not truly a place where everyone can collaborate. While the needs of the"},{"line_number":78,"context_line":"constituent businesses are essential, they must be balanced with each other"},{"line_number":79,"context_line":"lest OpenStack decisions unwittingly be made by unelected people behind"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_a5ebe1da","line":76,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_8a655c1f","updated":"2016-09-08 14:21:56.000000000","message":"I think it\u0027s a valid concern that the inconsistent use of \u0027project\u0027 to mean both OpenStack as a whole, and it\u0027s individual constituent components, is confusing. Though I\u0027m not sure which, if either, is the better usage. Perhaps the \u0027OpenStack Project\u0027 should be the \u0027OpenStack Ecosystem\u0027? Or the individual \u0027projects\u0027 should be individual \u0027services\u0027? I\u0027m not sure what the answer is here.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":83,"context_line":"-------------------------------------"},{"line_number":84,"context_line":""},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_c88fac21","line":86,"range":{"start_line":86,"start_character":55,"end_line":86,"end_character":74},"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"Is the \u0027technical community\u0027 deliberately called out here, vs. just the OpenStack community?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"b73b65a481cbe110d263e87901077058efd68bda","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":82,"context_line":"OpenStack Primarily Produces Software"},{"line_number":83,"context_line":"-------------------------------------"},{"line_number":84,"context_line":""},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_85e41dac","line":86,"range":{"start_line":85,"start_character":0,"end_line":86,"end_character":49},"updated":"2016-09-08 14:21:56.000000000","message":"This first sentence sounds like a contradictory statement, but I don\u0027t see how these two things contradict?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"b73b65a481cbe110d263e87901077058efd68bda","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":83,"context_line":"-------------------------------------"},{"line_number":84,"context_line":""},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_0582cdc7","line":86,"range":{"start_line":86,"start_character":55,"end_line":86,"end_character":74},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_5986f565","updated":"2016-09-08 14:21:56.000000000","message":"Does the technical community differ from the developer community?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":83,"context_line":"-------------------------------------"},{"line_number":84,"context_line":""},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_5986f565","line":86,"range":{"start_line":86,"start_character":55,"end_line":86,"end_character":74},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_c88fac21","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"Yes, because the TC doesn\u0027t speak for other parts of the community. We could say \"contributor community\" but I\u0027m not sure that\u0027s substantially different.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9236d0d97336d3df60a399b08480842677b4a918","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_41e66917","line":88,"updated":"2016-09-09 01:21:22.000000000","message":"Is this a reference to people who replace parts of OpenStack with API compatible systems? (E.G. the Keystone replacements that we deployed in some public clouds)","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"d3934afaeecadc78211e306a791c7d934c34c473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_cbce18b7","line":88,"updated":"2016-09-09 00:02:00.000000000","message":"Is this a reference to people who replace parts of OpenStack with API compatible systems? (E.G. the Keystone replacements that we deployed in some public clouds)","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_d30b067c","line":88,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"My interpretation of this is informed by the OpenStack Ansible project and my involvement in it. OpenStack Ansible (OSA henceforth) does not use packages provided by third-parties to install OpenStack. It uses only the source code produced by the upstream developer community. RPM, Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo packages are all ignored. Many of these packages include patches not written by the upstream community and sometimes improperly applied. If you hang out in the right channels long enough, you will see the same packagers having problems building these because they are reapplying old patches which now break things. They often implore the developer community to fix it for them because from their perspective the developers broke it. From the opposite perspective, the packagers are breaking things. Who is right? Nobody knows.\n\nI think this also speaks to companies who sell OpenStack that they have secretly modified and have no intention to contribute it back to the community for a competitive edge.\n\nBased on this paragraph though, I think the TC\u0027s actual intention here is to end the constant mailing list debate:\n\n\"\"\"Is OpenStack just it\u0027s APIs or is it the implementation (i.e., software)?\"\"\"\n\nThis is a debate that has happened often. It\u0027s a debate that causes a lot of friction because there are (90%) API compatible projects, e.g., RadosGW that are implemented in other languages and claim API compatibility but aren\u0027t quite there (for various reasons). I think this is meant to say that API compatible systems don\u0027t quite make up OpenStack. E.g., using Swift backed Glance where you\u0027re running RadosGW instead of Swift is not quite OpenStack.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"b73b65a481cbe110d263e87901077058efd68bda","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":84,"context_line":""},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_0543ad6c","line":88,"range":{"start_line":87,"start_character":0,"end_line":88,"end_character":14},"updated":"2016-09-08 14:21:56.000000000","message":"What does this mean? Are the \"people who run OpenStack\" the operators/users, or the people in charge of the OpenStack project? In either case, does this mean that group is expected to run *only* the software produced by/in the community? All of it?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":84,"context_line":""},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software. The technical community"},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_88197b7c","line":88,"range":{"start_line":87,"start_character":0,"end_line":88,"end_character":14},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_0543ad6c","updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"+1 no idea what this means","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_2b801246","line":90,"range":{"start_line":90,"start_character":32,"end_line":90,"end_character":45},"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"Is the \u0027OpenStack Way\u0027 written down somewhere else or is this referring to these guidelines?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":87,"context_line":"expects people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_85c40660","line":90,"range":{"start_line":90,"start_character":32,"end_line":90,"end_character":45},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_2b801246","updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"+1 What constitutes the \"OpenStack Way\"?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"empowerment that everyone in the community enjoys from equal application"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_f3100aab","line":93,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"Paul, I disagree that it\u0027s preachy. Having clarity that the rules apply to all contributors in certain language is valuable.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"empowerment that everyone in the community enjoys from equal application"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_687300e8","line":93,"range":{"start_line":93,"start_character":25,"end_line":93,"end_character":30},"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"Some reference to the definition of the \u0027rules\u0027 might be useful.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"empowerment that everyone in the community enjoys from equal application"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_79f499f1","line":93,"range":{"start_line":93,"start_character":25,"end_line":93,"end_character":30},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_687300e8","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"Most of the rest of this repository describes those \"rules\" and the Four Opens list is referenced more specifically up on line 9.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"empowerment that everyone in the community enjoys from equal application"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_85732615","line":93,"range":{"start_line":93,"start_character":25,"end_line":93,"end_character":30},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_79f499f1","updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"Suggest deleting the sentence \"No one is outside of the rules\". It\u0027s very preachy. The remainder of the paragraph gives useful justification for all to follow the rules.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"empowerment that everyone in the community enjoys from equal application"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_13264e16","line":95,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"+1 on changing When to If","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"empowerment that everyone in the community enjoys from equal application"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_0b58ae31","line":95,"updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"This sentence, in particular the use of \u0027when\u0027, implies that parts do at times exist outside of the rules, and gives a negative impression of the nature of OpenStack community.\n\nHere, and elsewhere, it would be better to make positive statements rather than emphasize the negatives.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"empowerment that everyone in the community enjoys from equal application"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b9e8e1e3","line":95,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_0b58ae31","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"Would changing \"when\" to \"if\" be sufficient, or do you think it needs a larger change? I see the point you\u0027re making, but I\u0027m having trouble coming up with better wording.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"b354e462e5723ba787e0f0e728d934617af3254c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"empowerment that everyone in the community enjoys from equal application"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_0524d25d","line":95,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_b9e8e1e3","updated":"2016-09-07 13:01:31.000000000","message":"Changing to \u0027if\u0027 would certainly help. I\u0027m not sure this is better but an alternative might be:\n\n  \"If any part of OpenStack were to disregard the rules then everyone would likely suffer\".","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"and Open Community. Code drops and decisions made outside of OpenStack"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"governance are rejected because they by defintion did not include the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"community."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_33235207","line":98,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"This is the *governance* repository after all and we are a democratic collective. ;)","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":95,"context_line":"of rules. When parts of OpenStack exist outside of the rules, everyone"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"suffers. While it can be tempting to circumvent process for expedience,"},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"and Open Community. Code drops and decisions made outside of OpenStack"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"governance are rejected because they by defintion did not include the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"community."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_a502ea70","line":98,"updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"This seems overly poetic: \u0027subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles\u0027.  Sounds like text from some government\u0027s constitution. Can it be reworded to be more pragmatic?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":97,"context_line":"doing so is not scalable from a community perspective. It leads to the"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"and Open Community. Code drops and decisions made outside of OpenStack"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"governance are rejected because they by defintion did not include the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"community."},{"line_number":102,"context_line":""},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b75100db","line":100,"range":{"start_line":100,"start_character":36,"end_line":100,"end_character":49},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":", by definition,","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"and Open Community. Code drops and decisions made outside of OpenStack"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"governance are rejected because they by defintion did not include the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"community."},{"line_number":102,"context_line":""},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_5320d6f7","line":101,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"+1 on not assuming malice.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"fb4eb2efdb0b1c0d042f9ea1e11c9157da7295c3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"and Open Community. Code drops and decisions made outside of OpenStack"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"governance are rejected because they by defintion did not include the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"community."},{"line_number":102,"context_line":""},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_1514249e","line":101,"updated":"2016-09-06 22:49:10.000000000","message":"I\u0027m not exactly sure what examples you might have in mind here.  I do think that if you\u0027re finding more and more things being done \u0027outside\u0027 maybe it\u0027s indicative of something wrong \u0027inside\u0027 the project that\u0027s in effect driving the behavior?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"change_message_id":"517d8b82394ff82424e86b4b6247e2e36d22d661","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":98,"context_line":"subversion of democracy and an abdication of our principles of Open Design"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"and Open Community. Code drops and decisions made outside of OpenStack"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"governance are rejected because they by defintion did not include the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"community."},{"line_number":102,"context_line":""},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_5f467e4f","line":101,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_1514249e","updated":"2016-09-08 04:35:55.000000000","message":"Ya, +1 to that, if people are bypassing the system, let\u0027s not just assume guilt but ask ourselves why in the first place (self-reflection is useful). I think https://lwn.net/Articles/698452/ was a good read (tangentially related to this).\n\n\u0027\u0027\u0027\nMany developers said, over the course of the discussion, that it is far better to get companies to change their ways through engagement with their developers; the process may take years but, when it ends well, those companies join the community and become enthusiastic contributors. This process is said to have worked many times over the years; some of the kernel\u0027s largest contributors were once on the list of GPL infringers. \n\u0027\u0027\u0027\n\n^^\nUseful quote from that article (around GPL violations).\n\nTLDR; let\u0027s not assume malice by default.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_731ddabc","line":108,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"Graham, I think the idea here is that \"The TC is not the rules police\". When someone violates the rules, the TC should not be the judiciary that decides the fate of the offender(s). Yes the TC enforces standards when projects join the big tent and are removed. I see the rejections or postponements as actions that ensure the integrity of OpenStacks rules. If a project is not following them and does not wish to start, then they don\u0027t belong in OpenStack. The fact that the TC investigates this for membership is enforcement, but not in the same way as I think this paragraph is trying to convey. Perhaps a different word would be better.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9236d0d97336d3df60a399b08480842677b4a918","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_61e36d06","line":108,"updated":"2016-09-09 01:21:22.000000000","message":"The TC *does* enforce these - when projects join the big tent, or are removed from the tent, the TC makes judgements on the project teams complience. \n\nIt can, (and has) rejected or postponed projects based on violations of these rules, - which to me is enforcement.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"d3934afaeecadc78211e306a791c7d934c34c473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_ebd3dc5d","line":108,"updated":"2016-09-09 00:02:00.000000000","message":"The TC *does* enforce these - when projects join the big tent, or are removed from the tent, the TC makes judgements on the project teams complience. \n\nIt can, (and has) rejected or postponed projects based on violations of these rules, - which to me is enforcement.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_93789efa","line":112,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"I agree \"thoughts or dreams\" is awkward here. I don\u0027t think \"business requirements or personal ethics\" is also the wrong way to go.\n\nI think perhaps we could try out\n\n- \"goals and priorities\"\n- \"ideals and opinions\"\n- something else?","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"d3934afaeecadc78211e306a791c7d934c34c473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_0bc9e0ac","line":112,"updated":"2016-09-09 00:02:00.000000000","message":"The phrase \"thoughts or dreams\" needs to go. \n\nReplace it with something like \"if someones business requirements, or personal ethics are in conflict with the OpenStack principals please respect the community and try to engage with us to effect the change you want, or seek other projects.\"\n\nIt also should be noted that this is a living document, and can be changed by the community, and that someone does not need to be a member of the TC to propose a change.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9236d0d97336d3df60a399b08480842677b4a918","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_81f071cb","line":112,"updated":"2016-09-09 01:21:22.000000000","message":"The phrase \"thoughts or dreams\" needs to go. \n\nReplace it with something like \"if someones business requirements, or personal ethics are in conflict with the OpenStack principals please respect the community and try to engage with us to effect the change you want, or seek other projects.\"\n\nIt also should be noted that this is a living document, and can be changed by the community, and that someone does not need to be a member of the TC to propose a change.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"3bec7eed7e94b5b5fe4da15a8ebf6f6e9a397d1d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b37da2e9","line":113,"updated":"2016-09-09 15:19:33.000000000","message":"As it\u0027s written, it\u0027s not entirely apparent that this is aimed at teams or companies. It\u0027s also quite strongly worded for my taste. I think Rodigo\u0027s rewrite is a good replacement for the last sentence (not the entire paragraph).","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":22141,"name":"Rodrigo Caballero","email":"rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com","username":"rcaballeromx"},"change_message_id":"00852e9f2c1b1dc7ed42a5aad6a83d66f73676df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_d72be4e9","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"updated":"2016-09-05 16:27:37.000000000","message":"I would urge you to rewrite this paragraph. As it stands, it could be construed as aggressive and defiant. I believe something along this line would be best:\nParticipation in the OpenStack project is completely voluntary. By participating in the project you acknowledge its rules and commit to abide by them. If you disagree with the OpenStack rules, we encourage you to either participate in improving them within the community or seek a different project, Open or Closed Source.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2243,"name":"John Griffith","email":"john.griffith8@gmail.com","username":"john-griffith"},"change_message_id":"fb4eb2efdb0b1c0d042f9ea1e11c9157da7295c3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_f54980b8","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"updated":"2016-09-06 22:49:10.000000000","message":"Personally I think the intent of the statement above is good, but I find the tone a bit off putting to say the least.  In particular the last sentence seems to discourage diversity of ideas more than anything else.  I believe it\u0027s more about following the \"Opens\" and I agree with that, but it sort of bolsters the feeling I\u0027ve had as of late (and have heard from others that are \"newer\" to OpenStack) that \"it\u0027s our way or the high-way\" which doesn\u0027t really lead to any true innovation of diversity of ideas.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":330,"name":"John Dickinson","email":"me@not.mn","username":"notmyname"},"change_message_id":"da4a83d56dd4e328d3a0dea14370f21fc9a680c5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_44668eed","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_40b203e6","updated":"2016-09-08 16:15:30.000000000","message":"For a different perspective, perhaps this *shouldn\u0027t* be rewritten. If this is the implicit, currently-unwritten mindset of OpenStack leadership, then it should be written down. If the wording is changed and doesn\u0027t reflect the prevailing mindset, then we get back to the current situation where unwritten principles are used to make decisions, regardless of what is written in a different version of this doc.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":970,"name":"Dean Troyer","email":"dtroyer@gmail.com","username":"dtroyer"},"change_message_id":"c25f954306f965573600aeef7a4685912cf14c34","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_fd16ccef","line":113,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_42d7d922","updated":"2016-09-06 19:58:04.000000000","message":"FWIW I read this as referring to teams, but I think this paragraph could be even more specifically aimed at teams driven by corporate objectives.  The corporate interest is making the choice to be involved, and likely influence the direction of a team, or even all of OpenStack.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"773e29fcaf4f893a7558170d5146d97f1a796a89","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_6157ff25","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_44668eed","updated":"2016-09-08 17:44:50.000000000","message":"I would like add another aspect here. \n\nIt should also state that if there is a conflict of interests - and I would emphasize an extreme conflict of interest - it is the not only in the power of the OpenStack leadership - but also part of their mandate to enforce the rules.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"15546ab985103856992c5d881670419af82df523","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_d9c68548","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_48271c12","updated":"2016-09-06 16:53:42.000000000","message":"I mostly like the proposed rewrite, but I do think it\u0027s important that we keep some form of the first sentence of the original paragraph because so much of the feedback about governance work is questions like \"but what if I don\u0027t want to X?\" (see the recent discussion of the goals initiative for lots of examples).","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":18838,"name":"Paul Dardeau","email":"paul.dardeau@intel.com","username":"pdardeau"},"change_message_id":"aa74555b7cfd1462f4041a8cd5fae7d99facf3b5","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_052ab62c","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_6157ff25","updated":"2016-09-08 21:26:28.000000000","message":"What\u0027s the point of this paragraph? Why not just say \"If you don\u0027t like it, LEAVE!\"? Is there some kind of test for allegiance? Some contributors may be required to contribute by their employer.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"92bd0c61b8e54b4582f4ceef5dd4e9ba8ba4d9f4","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_42d7d922","line":113,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_b42628cc","updated":"2016-09-06 19:33:52.000000000","message":"@John - I don\u0027t think this is in any way saying that issues shouldn\u0027t be discussed. The point is rather that after a decision is made using all of our democratic and open consensus-building processes, teams should not disregard that decision and go off and do something else just because they disagree with the consensus outcome.\n\n@Chris - You raise a good point. I think this statement is focused at a team level, rather than an individual contributor level, though others who had more of a hand in writing it may want to correct me on that.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":7847,"name":"Alistair Coles","email":"alistairncoles@gmail.com","username":"acoles"},"change_message_id":"dc7a260e7b138a985f781cd5ac55e9ec892337e0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_48271c12","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_d72be4e9","updated":"2016-09-06 10:22:42.000000000","message":"+1","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"b73b65a481cbe110d263e87901077058efd68bda","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_40b203e6","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_d72be4e9","updated":"2016-09-08 14:21:56.000000000","message":"+1 to the proposed rewrite (perhaps minus the \"Open or Closed source\" at the end). The current wording suggests that all project rules are final and closed to discussion, which is wrong.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":330,"name":"John Dickinson","email":"me@not.mn","username":"notmyname"},"change_message_id":"d77ec4cab8ceca50b8df77f0987beef83cfcd0fd","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":103,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":105,"context_line":""},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"the first place. There are plenty of Open Source projects in the world,"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"there are plenty of organizations under which projects can collaborate,"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_f4aef083","line":113,"range":{"start_line":106,"start_character":0,"end_line":113,"end_character":19},"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_d9c68548","updated":"2016-09-06 17:10:52.000000000","message":"Questioning proposed governance changes that are binding on all OpenStack contributors is something that should absolutely be encouraged. The expressed sentiment of \"since participation is voluntary[1] and therefore anyone who disagrees should go elsewhere\" is not only off-putting to new contributors but hostile to the democratic principles this very document is advocating.\n\n\n[1] which is questionable itself, given the corporate nature of participation in OpenStack","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":11564,"name":"Chris Dent","email":"cdent@anticdent.org","username":"chdent"},"change_message_id":"affab69ccb06cfe02baf4693e672fff0a5ec2fcd","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":110,"context_line":"and there are plenty of cloud related projects that are both Open and"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"Closed. If the OpenStack Principles are in conflict with someone\u0027s thoughts"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"or dreams, it is probably best to find something else to do that is more"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"aligned with those."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":4,"id":"9a89bdaa_b42628cc","line":113,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_f4aef083","updated":"2016-09-06 17:17:09.000000000","message":"\"which is questionable itself, given the corporate nature of participation in OpenStack\"\n\nThank you for stating this out loud. It\u0027s something I think we need to be far more clear about in our policy documents and aspirational documents (like this one).\n\nThe corporate nature of participation does change the equation a _lot_. I am not here 100% because I love OpenStack. I\u0027m here because I live in a world where I have to work and I\u0027m lucky enough to have an incredibly privileged job. It is still, however, a job. It is unlikely that I would work on OpenStack if I was not employed to do so. I still want to do well and make a valid and valuable contribution but it\u0027s a job.\n\nPolitics in jobs are weird.","commit_id":"91c3d0524d2ed2fd274fceb8d3733255792461f3"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"37514a739459ea5a524157c121981f4d6e688940","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":1,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":2,"context_line":"Guiding Principles"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_4d40be34","line":2,"range":{"start_line":2,"start_character":0,"end_line":2,"end_character":18},"updated":"2016-09-16 12:28:00.000000000","message":"Any thoughts on Rodrigo\u0027s comment from PS4?","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":10607,"name":"Alexandra Settle","email":"a.settle@outlook.com","username":"asettle"},"change_message_id":"26b94dc502428b26f93c8680069cf4cbaec8d612","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":1,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":2,"context_line":"Guiding Principles"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_ee29af9c","line":2,"range":{"start_line":2,"start_character":0,"end_line":2,"end_character":18},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_2b0f3089","updated":"2016-09-21 10:21:39.000000000","message":"It makes sense that internal consistency is preserved above switching styles. However, the doc team designed a full contrib guide for these kinds of instances. I would strongly suggest it is *best* for all documentation efforts that we all follow the same set of rules eventually.\n\nThis is currently what the doc teams are following: http://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/writing-style.html\n\nSaying that, the developer documentation is not at all expected to follow these guidelines - as the dev docs is meant to be more of a \u0027wiki\u0027 style information flow.\n\nJohn - if you can write a script marking up sentence case titles amongst other style issues, there would be a lot of happy people :p","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"f14dc047f10bf099818d7c5b55ef2222dbd569ce","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":1,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":2,"context_line":"Guiding Principles"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_b618a376","line":2,"range":{"start_line":2,"start_character":0,"end_line":2,"end_character":18},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_4d40be34","updated":"2016-09-16 15:54:01.000000000","message":"This document follows the same style as the \"Four Opens\" document from the same repository, for internal consistency.\n\nIf you\u0027d like to align the style of this repository with other documentation, I suggest that once this is approved you propose a change to align all of this repository documents at the same time, so that consistency is preserved.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"80b841b001b5dd084df1cdd3efb674c5b8ed4eea","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":1,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":2,"context_line":"Guiding Principles"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_f37d9d6d","line":2,"range":{"start_line":2,"start_character":0,"end_line":2,"end_character":18},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_b618a376","updated":"2016-09-19 11:21:56.000000000","message":"While I\u0027m not a fan of purposefully introducing technical debt, I see your point. I\u0027d still rather we get it right first time, but if there\u0027s no strong consensus behind that then I\u0027d be happy to propose the change once this patch has merged.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":782,"name":"John Garbutt","email":"john@johngarbutt.com","username":"johngarbutt"},"change_message_id":"9c5a94f62c858254e0d68b10aa6823cbf2c02f0f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":1,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":2,"context_line":"Guiding Principles"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack has a set of guiding principles that are used to inform and shape"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_2b0f3089","line":2,"range":{"start_line":2,"start_character":0,"end_line":2,"end_character":18},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_f37d9d6d","updated":"2016-09-20 17:19:17.000000000","message":"I was surprised to hear about those consistency things, I know all the Nova specs have followed this pattern from governance. I probably should have looked at that before, but I suspect we have two sets of rules being used here. We should probably more to those rules in other places too. Anyone written a script for that already?","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"37514a739459ea5a524157c121981f4d6e688940","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":16,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":""},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"OpenStack is one community with one common mission, producing one framework"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"of collaborating components. Our organization into separate source code"},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"repositories and teams allows contributors to focus on their areas of"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a loose collection of"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"disconnected projects."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_5e04e616","line":20,"range":{"start_line":19,"start_character":52,"end_line":20,"end_character":27},"updated":"2016-09-16 12:28:00.000000000","message":"This seems vague. Should we mention what those collaborating components are supposed to do?","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"33409e54412d28d3946f455e123457e4a0c5589f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":16,"context_line":"One OpenStack"},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"-------------"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":""},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"OpenStack is one community with one common mission, producing one framework"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"of collaborating components. Our organization into separate source code"},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"repositories and teams allows contributors to focus on their areas of"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"interest and expertise, but does not make OpenStack a loose collection of"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"disconnected projects."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_e2ee85b3","line":20,"range":{"start_line":19,"start_character":52,"end_line":20,"end_character":27},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_5e04e616","updated":"2016-09-19 20:29:17.000000000","message":"I don\u0027t think we need to repeat the mission statement here, but we could link to it.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2284,"name":"Eoghan Glynn","email":"eglynn@redhat.com","username":"eglynn"},"change_message_id":"2def8f1202904b4476c54b285a074b1629cb7c52","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"the needs of their project team or their company are highly valued, but"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"needs aside at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_c7d3265e","line":35,"updated":"2016-09-14 20:51:23.000000000","message":"This sounds unnecessarily prescriptive and unrealistic to my ears.\n\nI\u0027d prefer this notion to be articulated in terms of the well-known \"two hats\" metaphor. The key point is not that advocating with your employer\u0027s interests at heart is always wrong per se, or should always be strictly subservient to the overall community interests, more that:\n\n(a) you have to make a clear distinction in your own mind between your community hat and your company hat\n\nand:\n\n(b) you must fully disclose when wearing the latter\n\nThere is nothing wrong with advocating a position with one\u0027s company hat, even as a leader within the community governance structure, as long one is 100% clear when one is doing so.\n\nIf for example the TC had proposed dropping py26 from the CI gate while certain distributions of OpenStack still required it, I would have fully expected the leaders in the community employed by those distributors to advocate against that decision. Not for the love of py26, explicitly because their employers required that support. There would have been nothing wrong or unusual in that scenario, and indeed I expect no one would have batted an eyelid at it.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"865fa44540e3efb3000d74079fa47054c367343e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"the needs of their project team or their company are highly valued, but"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"needs aside at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_7fbbd975","line":35,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_448a771c","updated":"2016-09-20 09:20:20.000000000","message":"Yes, what Steven said... The point here is not to prevent leaders from voicing the needs of their company, it\u0027s about priorities when making decisions. As a leader you\u0027re supposed to vote / make decisions thinking about OpenStack first, project team second, and company third. I\u0027ll try to rewrite that last sentence so that it\u0027s clearer.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"3963d75021cdd8e4dee2a8f04bc1114e6713d6eb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"the needs of their project team or their company are highly valued, but"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"needs aside at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_7ff3b29e","line":35,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_4ad9dd82","updated":"2016-09-15 04:01:19.000000000","message":"@glynn - eloquent, although i don\u0027t think the hat analogy fits (since it typically only means 1 of 2 COIs rather then 1 of 3 COIs).  In my mind,the purpose of this section is to acknowledge COIs exist and provide guidance on prioritizing COIs when they arise.\n\ni also think governance documents should be direct, and not include idioms or analogies at all.  This section delivers that message and is one of our principles ofOPenStack.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":782,"name":"John Garbutt","email":"john@johngarbutt.com","username":"johngarbutt"},"change_message_id":"9c5a94f62c858254e0d68b10aa6823cbf2c02f0f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"the needs of their project team or their company are highly valued, but"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"needs aside at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_f9a1a547","line":35,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_7fbbd975","updated":"2016-09-20 17:19:17.000000000","message":"I think we all agree about what we are trying to express here, which is all good.\n\nttx, does it read better if we just drop that last sentence?\n\nIt is tempting to say something about being transparent about the conflicts you are having when making decisions. I quite like how the \"hat\" analogy express thats, partially references the whole 6 hats idea.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2284,"name":"Eoghan Glynn","email":"eglynn@redhat.com","username":"eglynn"},"change_message_id":"d3a76ab7e171a942eae748952a10d60e2893a05d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"the needs of their project team or their company are highly valued, but"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"needs aside at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_b7c37a88","line":35,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_7ff3b29e","updated":"2016-09-15 16:57:50.000000000","message":"@sdake if there truly are 3 independent conflicts of interest here, then I would separate out the tension between overall community and company interests (the more pressing concept to address) from the OpenStack versus individual project conflict.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"030334f0aaa25b85049fe501b58cb0d3366530e1","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"the needs of their project team or their company are highly valued, but"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"needs aside at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_448a771c","line":35,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_b7c37a88","updated":"2016-09-15 20:09:23.000000000","message":"good idea - although I think part of the point is missed.  The OpenStack versus individual project COI is one type of conflict, the OpensStack versus company interests is another type of conflict.  OpenStack should come first, Community should come second, and company should be prioritized third.  That means if a COI exists between company and OpenStack in general, OpenStack should take priority in decision making.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":7,"name":"Jay Pipes","email":"jaypipes@gmail.com","username":"jaypipes"},"change_message_id":"e7156c9ccf1ca90a9445c162d6bc01ee1be75816","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"the needs of their project team or their company are highly valued, but"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"should strongly consider whether it is appropriate for them to put those"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"needs aside at times before seeking or accepting a leadership role in"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"OpenStack."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_4ad9dd82","line":35,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_c7d3265e","updated":"2016-09-14 20:57:58.000000000","message":"@eglynn: Very well said.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"3963d75021cdd8e4dee2a8f04bc1114e6713d6eb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"},{"line_number":39,"context_line":""},{"line_number":40,"context_line":"While we strive to build community consensus around decisions, all decisions"},{"line_number":41,"context_line":"are finally made or delegated by people who have been democratically elected."},{"line_number":42,"context_line":""},{"line_number":43,"context_line":"One Contributor, One Vote"},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_1f870ed8","line":41,"updated":"2016-09-15 04:01:19.000000000","message":"i believe many teams do (including the TC) operate as a direct democracy (Although the TC and PTLS are obviously a representative form of governance).   If these teams are operating as a dictatorshp, that should be stopped,.  New project leaders should be given a clear expectation around their responsibility to avoid dictatorships.  The section on change of leadership good is not sufficient to  do this job.\n\nPerhaps something like:\n\"All leadership teams such as the Technical Committee and individual project  core teams are expected to operate as a direct democracy.  The various leadership teams in OpenStack such as the TC and Core Review teams should have equal voices in policy making decisions.\"\n\nThat could use some work,but I think the gist is there.  Maybe it deserves its own section.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"865fa44540e3efb3000d74079fa47054c367343e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"},{"line_number":39,"context_line":""},{"line_number":40,"context_line":"While we strive to build community consensus around decisions, all decisions"},{"line_number":41,"context_line":"are finally made or delegated by people who have been democratically elected."},{"line_number":42,"context_line":""},{"line_number":43,"context_line":"One Contributor, One Vote"},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_aa2a7d7c","line":41,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_1f870ed8","updated":"2016-09-20 09:20:20.000000000","message":"That is not what this section is about. The idea is that we elect representatives to make decisions, so every decision is not subject to a popularity contest.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"b09b098f1f483e25c47658a69fb203dcfe316ea7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":38,"context_line":"------------------------"},{"line_number":39,"context_line":""},{"line_number":40,"context_line":"While we strive to build community consensus around decisions, all decisions"},{"line_number":41,"context_line":"are finally made or delegated by people who have been democratically elected."},{"line_number":42,"context_line":""},{"line_number":43,"context_line":"One Contributor, One Vote"},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_d1f20b9a","line":41,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_aa2a7d7c","updated":"2016-09-20 14:17:27.000000000","message":"ack","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"37514a739459ea5a524157c121981f4d6e688940","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":45,"context_line":""},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"The voice of the contributor community is essential, and forms the basis"},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"of our democracy. A person with a thousand patches in an OpenStack release"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":"should not have a voice as thousand times as strong (and writing patches is"},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"not the only way to contribute). Efforts to limit the electorate to those"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"who make quantifiable contributions, no matter the form, are intended only"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative worth"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_2f252a08","line":48,"range":{"start_line":48,"start_character":24,"end_line":48,"end_character":41},"updated":"2016-09-16 12:28:00.000000000","message":"nit: a thousand times","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"37514a739459ea5a524157c121981f4d6e688940","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":49,"context_line":"not the only way to contribute). Efforts to limit the electorate to those"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"who make quantifiable contributions, no matter the form, are intended only"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"to prevent gaming of the system, not as a value judgement on relative worth"},{"line_number":52,"context_line":"of the various different forms of community contributions."},{"line_number":53,"context_line":""},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"Changes in Leadership are Good"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":"------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_2ff7ea8b","line":52,"updated":"2016-09-16 12:28:00.000000000","message":"+1 to the new wording of this paragraph","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"3963d75021cdd8e4dee2a8f04bc1114e6713d6eb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_ff3b42e9","line":64,"range":{"start_line":64,"start_character":23,"end_line":64,"end_character":50},"updated":"2016-09-15 04:01:19.000000000","message":"\"step down gracefully\" has all kinds of loaded context and possibly orthogonal to leadership changes.  If what your after here is Leader A should not go to war with Leader B during leadership transitions, why not just say as much?  \"Leaders, specifically, are expected to transfer their responsibilities gracefully on changes in leadership.\"","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2284,"name":"Eoghan Glynn","email":"eglynn@redhat.com","username":"eglynn"},"change_message_id":"2def8f1202904b4476c54b285a074b1629cb7c52","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_27cbea54","line":64,"updated":"2016-09-14 20:51:23.000000000","message":"I agree with the sentiment, but this principle is kinda weak in the absence of any term limits in the governance structure. If we were serious about it, we would have some mechanism to guarantee the regular introduction of new blood.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"ab40bbd665ad2e81d55676b57b4b862ff569244a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_6406931e","line":64,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_1776eea3","updated":"2016-09-15 19:59:22.000000000","message":"makes sense - no teeth to the principle.  Maybe that will emerge as a result of writing these principles down.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2284,"name":"Eoghan Glynn","email":"eglynn@redhat.com","username":"eglynn"},"change_message_id":"d3a76ab7e171a942eae748952a10d60e2893a05d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_1776eea3","line":64,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_1fd54eb8","updated":"2016-09-15 16:57:50.000000000","message":"@sdake: I guess my main point is that principles underpinned by some concrete action or structure are more compelling and convincing than those that are not so grounded.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"3963d75021cdd8e4dee2a8f04bc1114e6713d6eb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_1fd54eb8","line":64,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_27cbea54","updated":"2016-09-15 04:01:19.000000000","message":"Principles are a foundation of belief.  There need not be any execution specified behind those principles.  A principle stands on its own, whether or not there is a precriptive| way to achieve such a result.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"865fa44540e3efb3000d74079fa47054c367343e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_8acf81b2","line":64,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_6406931e","updated":"2016-09-20 09:20:20.000000000","message":"I\u0027ll try to expand on \"gracefully\". I think the two ideas behind that word is that (1) you should step down when you don\u0027t have time/energy for the role anymore and (2) you should pass the baton gracefully. That should make it clearer.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"b09b098f1f483e25c47658a69fb203dcfe316ea7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"are encouraged to participate in mentoring activities (external or internal"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_6c0cfc3b","line":64,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_8acf81b2","updated":"2016-09-20 14:17:27.000000000","message":"Thanks Thierry - I think that would help.  As is gracefully is undefined.  Rather then use the words pass the baton (which is an idiom) may I recommend \"hand over leadership responsibilities on leadership changes\" - or something to that affect.\n\nI don\u0027t consider (and I don\u0027t anyone in their right mind would argue) that a successful transition to a new leader when the previous leader is either not selected in an election or moves on to other things is \"stepping down (i.e. resigning).  They are instead successfully transitioning their responsibilities to someone else which is not a resignation.\n\nI\u0027ve been personally in both situations, and trust me when I say there is a huge difference.\n\nJust some thinking to work with.\n\nRegards\n-steve","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"3963d75021cdd8e4dee2a8f04bc1114e6713d6eb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_dad3f45d","line":65,"updated":"2016-09-15 04:01:19.000000000","message":"the purpose of this principle is to set expectations of leadership that they are not committed to completing their terms in the cases of personal or employment crisis.  I have some suggested wording but it could be better...\n\nOpenStack Has Solutions for Stepping Back from a Leadership Position\n--------------------------------------------------------\n\n\"If in our capacity as leaders we face some type of personal crisis, employment crisis, lose interest in what we do, or for any other reason feel the need to step back from a leadership position, OpenStack has solutions for this situation.  Leaders should make use of these solutions if the need arises.\"","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":782,"name":"John Garbutt","email":"john@johngarbutt.com","username":"johngarbutt"},"change_message_id":"9c5a94f62c858254e0d68b10aa6823cbf2c02f0f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_eb39c8a4","line":65,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_dad3f45d","updated":"2016-09-20 17:19:17.000000000","message":"I worry if we add that explicitly, we dilute the punchy message here. I think including that detail above should be enough. At least I think thats worth a try.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"6ebafaf7ca29c29dda520a100955a1caa261bc0a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"to the OpenStack community) to help cultivate the next generation of"},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should step down gracefully."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":""},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"--------------------------------"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_4ee72a12","line":65,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_eb39c8a4","updated":"2016-09-20 17:36:43.000000000","message":"Fair enough.  Lets see if Thierry\u0027s rework of step down gracefully on line 64 captures this adequately.  Note I am not -1 on this particular point - I just  thought it might be a helpful additino.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2284,"name":"Eoghan Glynn","email":"eglynn@redhat.com","username":"eglynn"},"change_message_id":"2def8f1202904b4476c54b285a074b1629cb7c52","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":76,"context_line":"From the beginning, OpenStack has striven to support businesses who build"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"products on or with OpenStack, and help them be successful. However,"},{"line_number":78,"context_line":"OpenStack should not empower one business over another, or else our community"},{"line_number":79,"context_line":"is not truly a place where everyone can collaborate. While the needs of the"},{"line_number":80,"context_line":"constituent businesses are essential, they must be balanced with each other"},{"line_number":81,"context_line":"lest OpenStack decisions unwittingly be made by unelected people behind"},{"line_number":82,"context_line":"closed doors."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_4722b602","line":79,"updated":"2016-09-14 20:51:23.000000000","message":"s/is not truly/would not truly be/","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"ba6a8507373e5b188dddb22403fb81f368124aa2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":85,"context_line":"-------------------------------------"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_2c78348f","line":88,"range":{"start_line":88,"start_character":51,"end_line":88,"end_character":70},"updated":"2016-09-14 19:09:52.000000000","message":"I think this is redundant.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":782,"name":"John Garbutt","email":"john@johngarbutt.com","username":"johngarbutt"},"change_message_id":"9c5a94f62c858254e0d68b10aa6823cbf2c02f0f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":85,"context_line":"-------------------------------------"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_eb60e8a6","line":88,"range":{"start_line":88,"start_character":51,"end_line":88,"end_character":70},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_22cb0d20","updated":"2016-09-20 17:19:17.000000000","message":"+1 for keep that clarification. Its often misunderstood.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"f14dc047f10bf099818d7c5b55ef2222dbd569ce","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":85,"context_line":"-------------------------------------"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_3bd47ebb","line":88,"range":{"start_line":88,"start_character":51,"end_line":88,"end_character":70},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_2c78348f","updated":"2016-09-16 15:54:01.000000000","message":"I added it because one reviewer on the previous patchset found the statement unclear without it.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"33409e54412d28d3946f455e123457e4a0c5589f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":85,"context_line":"-------------------------------------"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_22cb0d20","line":88,"range":{"start_line":88,"start_character":51,"end_line":88,"end_character":70},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_3bd47ebb","updated":"2016-09-19 20:29:17.000000000","message":"It also specifically calls out the question we\u0027ve discussed in the past in many other forums.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"37514a739459ea5a524157c121981f4d6e688940","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_12741566","line":90,"range":{"start_line":89,"start_character":0,"end_line":90,"end_character":14},"updated":"2016-09-16 12:28:00.000000000","message":"This sentence is still difficult to understand. Are operators expected to run nothing but OpenStack software in their deployments? That sounds difficult to justify/enforce.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"34883ad4ff6648b15bd0ede5c631a67f863226f8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_3a7855f2","line":90,"range":{"start_line":89,"start_character":0,"end_line":90,"end_character":14},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_016df303","updated":"2016-09-20 20:39:37.000000000","message":"I\u0027m not sure that\u0027s a lot clearer. Would it be better to say\n\n  We expect people who say they run OpenStack to run the software\n  produced by and in the community.\n\n(Changing \"who run\" to \"who say they run\" )","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":782,"name":"John Garbutt","email":"john@johngarbutt.com","username":"johngarbutt"},"change_message_id":"9c5a94f62c858254e0d68b10aa6823cbf2c02f0f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_ebbc68dd","line":90,"range":{"start_line":89,"start_character":0,"end_line":90,"end_character":14},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_02ed318e","updated":"2016-09-20 17:19:17.000000000","message":"Maybe we could say something like:\n\nThose who provide users with access to OpenStack APIs are expected to run the software provided by and in the community.\n\nAlthough that probably says too much now... hmm. Just an idea. I am OK with the current wording.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":964,"name":"Anne Gentle","email":"annegentle@justwriteclick.com","username":"annegentle"},"change_message_id":"7a60e494fcc76e0b2514ec4dbdce97302bf4fbf8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_016df303","line":90,"range":{"start_line":89,"start_character":0,"end_line":90,"end_character":14},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_02ed318e","updated":"2016-09-20 18:09:07.000000000","message":"We need to be super clear here. How about:\n\nWe expect the software produced by OpenStack to be run in the community. We also expect that the APIs produced by OpenStack projects are implemented by the software the community contributes to. The way we know we\u0027re meeting this software production expectation is that OpenStack clouds are running OpenStack software produced by the community.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"33409e54412d28d3946f455e123457e4a0c5589f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_02ed318e","line":90,"range":{"start_line":89,"start_character":0,"end_line":90,"end_character":14},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_12741566","updated":"2016-09-19 20:29:17.000000000","message":"If you say you\u0027re running OpenStack, you should run what the community produces. Not a fork. Not a closed-source thing that is API-compatible. Refer to the history of DefCore for the full background.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"e86adeedc6283601938e1ba448e26dc88d072149","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_cec5d35c","line":90,"range":{"start_line":89,"start_character":0,"end_line":90,"end_character":14},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_3a7855f2","updated":"2016-09-21 10:20:28.000000000","message":"These are all good, and I feel like I understand the intent better now. I think this is quite a specific point and we really need to spell it out so that there\u0027s no room for interpretation. Something like:\n\n Anybody operating an OpenStack service is expected to use only the\n community-produced version of that service. Forks, and alternative\n implementations of the API are not acceptable substitutes.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"edf403a75526a2b5d6d51e40369234a7fb9bc7fd","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_d68ab6be","line":90,"range":{"start_line":89,"start_character":0,"end_line":90,"end_character":14},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_cec5d35c","updated":"2016-09-21 14:54:14.000000000","message":"So I have a slight problem with this statement - and it could be that I miss the intent behind it - and if so please feel free to correct me. \n\nWe all know that OpenStack does not provide everything - and even what it does provide - it does not always do in an optimal way.\n\nTwo examples.\nLBaaS v1/v2\nThere were a number of shortcomings with v1 - which why no-one ever ran it in production, and there are still things missing with v2. The way I understand the statement above is that as an operator I am stuck with what OpenStack provides. Even if it does not suit my needs because I am \u0027expected to use only the community-produced version of that software\u0027. What happens if there is something else out there - that is better, provides what I need - or I develop something of my own. What would I be expected to do not use it? Not work with it? Not run production workloads - with a SPOF LB - just because this is what OpenStack can give me. \n\nFrom an operator perspective - I would get the best possible solution for my needs. If OpenStack does not provide what I need - I will take a solution that can - even if it is not \u0027part\u0027 of OpenStack.\n\nMonitoring\nCeilometer was not suitable - for many reasons - which is why it is being  refactored. According to my understanding of the above - I should not be running a different monitoring solution - because OpenStack does have one (even though it does not work - at least for my needs).\n\nI think this statement above something that does not belong in this document - because by declaring this - you are saying that anyone that has - or will use a third party solution instead of what is provided by the community is going against the principles.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"cb96be4984092de0c3494ad339d12b06bc838f2d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":""},{"line_number":87,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":""},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_e35a8ff1","line":90,"range":{"start_line":89,"start_character":0,"end_line":90,"end_character":14},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_d68ab6be","updated":"2016-09-21 15:09:45.000000000","message":"The intent is not to say that operators must run everything produced in the community and to only run that. It is to say that if you run something with an OpenStack API that is not produced in the community, you do not say that you run OpenStack. This position is a response to the development of several \"compatible\" products outside of the community that were either closed source or presented as competing open source projects developed elsewhere rather than contributing within the community.\n\nIf someone chooses to run something to supplement OpenStack, that\u0027s fine.\n\nIf someone chooses to run something other than an OpenStack component, that\u0027s fine as long as they don\u0027t call it OpenStack.\n\nRefer to http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20140211-tc_defcore_response.html for the full details. We should probably link to that resolution here.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":964,"name":"Anne Gentle","email":"annegentle@justwriteclick.com","username":"annegentle"},"change_message_id":"7a60e494fcc76e0b2514ec4dbdce97302bf4fbf8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":100,"context_line":"perspective. It leads to the subversion of democracy and an abdication of our"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"principles of Open Design and Open Community. Code drops and decisions made"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"outside of OpenStack governance are rejected because they, by definition,"},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"did not include the community."},{"line_number":104,"context_line":""},{"line_number":105,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"--------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_641b251d","line":103,"updated":"2016-09-20 18:09:07.000000000","message":"In this context, \"they\" is a bit difficult to know what it is referring to -- decisions did not include the community? Code drops did not include the community? Can you clarify, perhaps:\n\nDecisions and code bases made outside of OpenStack governance are not considered to follow the OpenStack way because the community was not included in those processes.\n\nNow, what\u0027s tough about this wording is we look like: 1) we don\u0027t like experimentation or innovation in our walls or 2) we prefer to reject even mature code bases if they were built outside of our governance. So on the face of it, this is a problematic guiding principle because of timing and perception. As we grow larger and grow in years, this principle is harder and harder to define. \n\nI think these principles are at the heart of this section: \"We want code decisions and architectural decisions made with all of OpenStack as a central wayfinder?\" and \"We want those who find value in the community to also follow the rules so the value extraction doesn\u0027t become lopsided?\" Could you incorporate (and do you agree?)","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"f5b63b91220950f22586e1171543323de69613e7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":100,"context_line":"perspective. It leads to the subversion of democracy and an abdication of our"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"principles of Open Design and Open Community. Code drops and decisions made"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"outside of OpenStack governance are rejected because they, by definition,"},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"did not include the community."},{"line_number":104,"context_line":""},{"line_number":105,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"--------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_50d8a37f","line":103,"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_641b251d","updated":"2016-09-20 19:54:11.000000000","message":"The idea behind \"code drops\" was to refer to large amounts of code being designed in a corner and thrown at an *existing* project, rather than being discussed within community processes. It doesn\u0027t apply to \"code bases\", where we\u0027d adopt a new project where some of the code (by definition) was created before the project was official. I\u0027ll try to find a wording that clarifies that as well.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"3963d75021cdd8e4dee2a8f04bc1114e6713d6eb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":""},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"the first place. By participating in the project you acknowledge its rules"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"and commit to abide by them. If you disagree with the principles or processes"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"we follow, we encourage you to either participate in improving them within"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"our community governance rules, or seek a different project that is better"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_7a6d8097","line":110,"range":{"start_line":108,"start_character":0,"end_line":110,"end_character":15},"updated":"2016-09-15 04:01:19.000000000","message":"It took me a long time to parse this sentence (mostly because of the word aegis and also the loaded variance in the meaning of choice in the first place).  Being a native English speaker and struggling here, I suspect ESL folks will struggle.  Any chance we could get something a  little less complex (and dense with US/EMEA based philosophies?)","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"37514a739459ea5a524157c121981f4d6e688940","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":106,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":""},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"the first place. By participating in the project you acknowledge its rules"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"and commit to abide by them. If you disagree with the principles or processes"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"we follow, we encourage you to either participate in improving them within"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"our community governance rules, or seek a different project that is better"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_4d88bec5","line":110,"range":{"start_line":109,"start_character":23,"end_line":110,"end_character":15},"updated":"2016-09-16 12:28:00.000000000","message":"The second sentence already seems to capture the intent of the latter half of the first quite nicely, so I\u0027d suggest removing it altogether:\n\"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to spend its time enforcing community rules. By participating in the project you acknowledge...\"","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":782,"name":"John Garbutt","email":"john@johngarbutt.com","username":"johngarbutt"},"change_message_id":"9c5a94f62c858254e0d68b10aa6823cbf2c02f0f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":106,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":""},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"the first place. By participating in the project you acknowledge its rules"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"and commit to abide by them. If you disagree with the principles or processes"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"we follow, we encourage you to either participate in improving them within"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"our community governance rules, or seek a different project that is better"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_4bd1dcfa","line":110,"range":{"start_line":109,"start_character":23,"end_line":110,"end_character":15},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_4d88bec5","updated":"2016-09-20 17:19:17.000000000","message":"FWIW, I prefer Steven\u0027s suggestion, with the removal \"By participating\" sentence.","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"1dfc2e6911ef07cc6f5c3283d85a1df466ff7fdd","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"Participation is Voluntary"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"--------------------------"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":""},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position"},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"of enforcing the rules because existing under their aegis is a choice in"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"the first place. By participating in the project you acknowledge its rules"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"and commit to abide by them. If you disagree with the principles or processes"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"we follow, we encourage you to either participate in improving them within"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"our community governance rules, or seek a different project that is better"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_7563d1dc","line":110,"range":{"start_line":108,"start_character":0,"end_line":110,"end_character":15},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_7a6d8097","updated":"2016-09-15 04:41:15.000000000","message":"Suggested rewording\n\"The leadership of OpenStack should not need to find itself in a position of enforcing the rules because participation in the OpenStack community is a choice made by it\u0027s participants.\"","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"37514a739459ea5a524157c121981f4d6e688940","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":110,"context_line":"the first place. By participating in the project you acknowledge its rules"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"and commit to abide by them. If you disagree with the principles or processes"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"we follow, we encourage you to either participate in improving them within"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"our community governance rules, or seek a different project that is better"},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"aligned with your ideals or opinions."},{"line_number":115,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_f2e969b8","line":113,"range":{"start_line":113,"start_character":52,"end_line":113,"end_character":59},"updated":"2016-09-16 12:28:00.000000000","message":"Would \"community\" be better here?","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":782,"name":"John Garbutt","email":"john@johngarbutt.com","username":"johngarbutt"},"change_message_id":"9c5a94f62c858254e0d68b10aa6823cbf2c02f0f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":110,"context_line":"the first place. By participating in the project you acknowledge its rules"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"and commit to abide by them. If you disagree with the principles or processes"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"we follow, we encourage you to either participate in improving them within"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"our community governance rules, or seek a different project that is better"},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"aligned with your ideals or opinions."},{"line_number":115,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"7a8ec9b2_6b90584f","line":113,"range":{"start_line":113,"start_character":52,"end_line":113,"end_character":59},"in_reply_to":"7a8ec9b2_f2e969b8","updated":"2016-09-20 17:19:17.000000000","message":"+1","commit_id":"aa759f3cb19426a3e66bdcb234c8eed79813f9a9"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"36d33b34a57e2a6c6fb1e1e2a8ff987ba346ca89","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We expect people who run OpenStack to run the software produced by and in"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"the community."},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a8bc5a2_2e3b05ed","line":91,"range":{"start_line":90,"start_character":0,"end_line":91,"end_character":14},"updated":"2016-09-22 11:33:05.000000000","message":"This sentence is too ambiguous, and I think is a bigger issue than just a wording improvement. There\u0027s plenty of discussion and suggestions from previous patchsets, so I won\u0027t repeat it here, but I would prefer to see this made much clearer before the first iteration merges.","commit_id":"a01fa4d992f9c2864d55d3aded9d127c1063cbf3"},{"author":{"_account_id":2284,"name":"Eoghan Glynn","email":"eglynn@redhat.com","username":"eglynn"},"change_message_id":"6953263a935de724cd4304fb950561b4ea4304b1","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. They can of course"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"represent the needs of their project team or their company, but in case"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"of conflicts of interest, they should be ready to put those needs aside"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and make the best call for OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":35,"context_line":""},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_987efae2","line":33,"range":{"start_line":33,"start_character":26,"end_line":33,"end_character":71},"updated":"2016-09-22 22:11:14.000000000","message":"At the risk of attracting even more anti-Red Hat snark, I\u0027ve got to say that in my view that\u0027s not the way the world actually works.\n\nIn practice, the \"bazaar\" dynamic of any functioning open source community is way more subtle than a strict 1,2,3 ordering of interests.\n\nIMO it\u0027s totally fine to trade-off, balance, negotiate, practice the \"art of the achievable\" ... such that a major contributor company\u0027s interests sometimes win through, even when that involves the community taking on some extra burden in order to make it happen. As long as everyone is open about it, no problem putting the company interest first occasionally.\n\nBecause, reality. Because, the ponying up of resources is at best semi-altruistic. Because, this isn\u0027t Burning Man :)\n\nThe job we entrust the leadership of OpenStack with is to actually *navigate* the choppy waters of these sometimes-conflicting interests. Not just to algorithmically apply a simplistic 1,2,3 ordering of interests.\n\nPracticing realpolitik in that environment is not an easy job, to be sure. But it would certainly be made harder by pretending that the leadership is bound by unrealistic constraints.","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":12000,"name":"Ian Cordasco","email":"sigmavirus24@gmail.com","username":"sigmavirus24"},"change_message_id":"1c017901c9c82ce15a70528300950b9b662b103e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. They can of course"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"represent the needs of their project team or their company, but in case"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"of conflicts of interest, they should be ready to put those needs aside"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and make the best call for OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":35,"context_line":""},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_518dfb79","line":33,"range":{"start_line":33,"start_character":26,"end_line":33,"end_character":71},"in_reply_to":"5a8bc5a2_1b93c45c","updated":"2016-09-23 18:17:37.000000000","message":"Perhaps this isn\u0027t clear enough that this is referring first and foremost to PTLs. I know even PTLs can\u0027t always put their employer last, but given how often PTLs switch employers during a cycle, I\u0027m not sure they\u0027re employment contract would be first anyway.","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":782,"name":"John Garbutt","email":"john@johngarbutt.com","username":"johngarbutt"},"change_message_id":"63f0ac1a0f02fd4471a2b3aae6c0ae7d32b690ca","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. They can of course"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"represent the needs of their project team or their company, but in case"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"of conflicts of interest, they should be ready to put those needs aside"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and make the best call for OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":35,"context_line":""},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_2c0fa937","line":33,"range":{"start_line":33,"start_character":26,"end_line":33,"end_character":71},"in_reply_to":"5a8bc5a2_1f0323b9","updated":"2016-09-27 15:40:54.000000000","message":"This wording seems correct to me.\n\n+1 to jroll\u0027s comments here.","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":6537,"name":"gordon chung","email":"gord@live.ca","username":"chungg"},"change_message_id":"2d712ba1dbdf28d94c085885f9b37004b1a3499a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. They can of course"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"represent the needs of their project team or their company, but in case"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"of conflicts of interest, they should be ready to put those needs aside"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and make the best call for OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":35,"context_line":""},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_fc1e405e","line":33,"range":{"start_line":33,"start_character":26,"end_line":33,"end_character":71},"in_reply_to":"5a8bc5a2_2c0fa937","updated":"2016-09-27 21:12:10.000000000","message":"agree with eglynn here. is the purpose of this principle to suggest this is how we should \u0027try\u0027 to go about our day to day? because that seems more realistic.\n\na question i have is who is in this OpenStack leadership group? TC? Board? Working Group?","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"9311e7321a8068d3fab11f4fed92c695ae793b13","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. They can of course"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"represent the needs of their project team or their company, but in case"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"of conflicts of interest, they should be ready to put those needs aside"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and make the best call for OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":35,"context_line":""},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_53d41546","line":33,"range":{"start_line":33,"start_character":26,"end_line":33,"end_character":71},"in_reply_to":"5a8bc5a2_518dfb79","updated":"2016-09-24 02:40:36.000000000","message":"Ian,\n\nEoghan\u0027s point is not just applicable to PTLs, it is applicable to the TC as well.  One could argue (I would) it also applies to the core review teams as they are leaders as well.","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":10343,"name":"Jim Rollenhagen","email":"jim@jimrollenhagen.com","username":"jimrollenhagen"},"change_message_id":"94f87235fc126840ef5d89b137823df94c10e845","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. They can of course"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"represent the needs of their project team or their company, but in case"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"of conflicts of interest, they should be ready to put those needs aside"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and make the best call for OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":35,"context_line":""},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_1f0323b9","line":33,"range":{"start_line":33,"start_character":26,"end_line":33,"end_character":71},"in_reply_to":"5a8bc5a2_53d41546","updated":"2016-09-26 20:06:53.000000000","message":"Right, this is about leaders in the community in general (PTLs, TC, cores at some level, maybe even thought leader types), and about conflicting interests and hard decisions. This isn\u0027t saying a leader can never vocalize their employer\u0027s interests. (For example, in ironic, I have said things like \"with my Rackspace hat on, I hate this proposal, but with my PTL hat on I think it\u0027s the right thing to do, so let\u0027s do it\")\n\nI must disagree that in a conflict of interests between an organization and the community, the organization may come first. The community is *all* of us, including *all* organizations that contribute. Putting one\u0027s company first, ever, when making a decision, can\u0027t possibly be the right thing to do, because as you say it does put some burden on the community. When that community is all of the other organizations that work on OpenStack, how is that okay? How is that fair?\n\nIf an organization is truly part of the community, then their interests will (mostly) naturally align with the community, and this situation won\u0027t come up often anyway.\n\nA leader *must* put the community first, whether it is their own employer or another employer that benefits the most from that decision. If they can\u0027t do that (because they fear that their employer will retaliate or something), then that leader needs to step down.\n\nP.S. I think the \"Empowering businesses\" section reinforces this - I\u0027m surprised folks balk at this piece, but not that one.","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"e842bac43b6780e88efab703f19c79bf55f1533a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":30,"context_line":"They are also expected to put the needs of their project team before the"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. They can of course"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"represent the needs of their project team or their company, but in case"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"of conflicts of interest, they should be ready to put those needs aside"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and make the best call for OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":35,"context_line":""},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_1b93c45c","line":33,"range":{"start_line":33,"start_character":26,"end_line":33,"end_character":71},"in_reply_to":"5a8bc5a2_987efae2","updated":"2016-09-22 22:35:15.000000000","message":"The points you make Eoghan are valid and logical.  At the end of the day, someone has to pick up the tab.  I think the question you want answered is \"Is this principle really pragmatic?\"  If that is the question, then my question back would be \"how do you objectively apply the principles if you make exceptions?\"  These are questions for the TC as well.\n\nRegards\n-steve","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"f456da8b1ec83c4559320236d6c4f6a850e7de86","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":31,"context_line":"needs of the organization they work for, if any. They can of course"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"represent the needs of their project team or their company, but in case"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"of conflicts of interest, they should be ready to put those needs aside"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and make the best call for OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":35,"context_line":""},{"line_number":36,"context_line":"Representative Democracy"},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_e3ee8beb","line":34,"range":{"start_line":34,"start_character":13,"end_line":34,"end_character":22},"updated":"2016-09-22 14:15:17.000000000","message":"this is a little vague and a bit idomatic.   If you make a new rev, might try to fix that.","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":2834,"name":"Steven Dake","email":"steven.dake@gmail.com","username":"sdake"},"change_message_id":"f456da8b1ec83c4559320236d6c4f6a850e7de86","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should consider stepping down from their role when"},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"they can\u0027t fully focus on it anymore, and always ensure a good transition"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"path with their successors."},{"line_number":66,"context_line":""},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_837ce721","line":65,"updated":"2016-09-22 14:15:17.000000000","message":"nicely done!","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":6537,"name":"gordon chung","email":"gord@live.ca","username":"chungg"},"change_message_id":"2d712ba1dbdf28d94c085885f9b37004b1a3499a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":62,"context_line":"contributors and leaders. No one should consider their role as permanent."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Leaders, specifically, should consider stepping down from their role when"},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"they can\u0027t fully focus on it anymore, and always ensure a good transition"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"path with their successors."},{"line_number":66,"context_line":""},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"OpenStack is Built for our Users"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"--------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_e96120aa","line":65,"in_reply_to":"5a8bc5a2_837ce721","updated":"2016-09-27 21:12:10.000000000","message":"i think we should remove this in future revisions. this isn\u0027t true. the vast majority of us have been in the same \u0027leadership\u0027 positions (TC, PTL, Core) for years now. i would say this is less an unwritten rule but rather a falsely written rule.\n\nas far as i can tell, only Heat actually practices this to some extent. (for PTL role at least)","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":6635,"name":"John Davidge","email":"john.davidge@rackspace.com","username":"john-davidge"},"change_message_id":"eab4e556b7f4bea7c745c514f6e116d534376721","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We expect people who say they run \"OpenStack\" to run the software produced by"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"and in the community, rather than alternative implementations of the API."},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_b43e83b6","line":91,"range":{"start_line":90,"start_character":0,"end_line":91,"end_character":73},"updated":"2016-09-22 12:56:57.000000000","message":"This is great Thierry, thanks. Let\u0027s take further discussion into a future patch if needed.","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"5b3c5250a1d91b1444d0822dcd57a182f7a5295e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":88,"context_line":"While the software that OpenStack produces has well defined and documented"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"APIs, the primary output of OpenStack is software, not API definitions."},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We expect people who say they run \"OpenStack\" to run the software produced by"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"and in the community, rather than alternative implementations of the API."},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_40257aa9","line":91,"range":{"start_line":91,"start_character":0,"end_line":91,"end_character":73},"updated":"2016-09-22 12:40:57.000000000","message":"This is much better - but I would move the quotes a tiny bit:\nWe expect people who \"say\" they run OpenStack....","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":5196,"name":"Matthew Treinish","email":"mtreinish@kortar.org","username":"treinish"},"change_message_id":"0cf97944362633186f41fa24087466c5a91c1f80","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We expect people who say they run \"OpenStack\" to run the software produced by"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"and in the community, rather than alternative implementations of the API."},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":""},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_d2a412bb","line":93,"range":{"start_line":93,"start_character":32,"end_line":93,"end_character":45},"updated":"2016-09-27 20:08:26.000000000","message":"I still wish we had a definition of what exactly this was. We reference the OpenStack Way a few places in the governance and not clearly define what exactly that is.","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"},{"author":{"_account_id":6537,"name":"gordon chung","email":"gord@live.ca","username":"chungg"},"change_message_id":"2d712ba1dbdf28d94c085885f9b37004b1a3499a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":90,"context_line":"We expect people who say they run \"OpenStack\" to run the software produced by"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"and in the community, rather than alternative implementations of the API."},{"line_number":92,"context_line":""},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"We all should Always Follow the OpenStack Way"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"---------------------------------------------"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":""},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"No one is outside of the rules. We derive considerable value from the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":7,"id":"5a8bc5a2_896b3c85","line":93,"range":{"start_line":93,"start_character":32,"end_line":93,"end_character":45},"in_reply_to":"5a8bc5a2_d2a412bb","updated":"2016-09-27 21:12:10.000000000","message":"+1","commit_id":"f019d697c6b26a00f4693331b00db9124d91f92e"}]}