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{"reference/new-projects-requirements.rst":[{"author":{"_account_id":8099,"name":"Graham Hayes","email":"gr@ham.ie","username":"graham"},"change_message_id":"9254157b51dde7289d8a8e3d130aa43460c25bbb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":64,"context_line":"      public forums"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"    * The project uses the openstack-dev ML to discuss issues"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":""},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"* The project either has followed the 4 Opens since its inception, *or* shows"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Projects that are"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor and projects that were seeded"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  with the release of a pre-existing code base are permitted, but projects that"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5f7c97a3_03c10c2f","line":67,"range":{"start_line":67,"start_character":38,"end_line":67,"end_character":65},"updated":"2018-05-17 11:40:02.000000000","message":"I would prefer this to say something like \"4 Opens for an extended period before application\".\n\nProjects may start out as a company project, and not follow the opens, and then migrate to following the OpenStack way - and we should not discount them","commit_id":"ef20d3306b3920d124741fb725c01bc807a58cdb"},{"author":{"_account_id":4257,"name":"Zane Bitter","email":"zbitter@redhat.com","username":"zaneb"},"change_message_id":"880b35a5e67d0e23825fd41493d924d779d4af28","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":64,"context_line":"      public forums"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"    * The project uses the openstack-dev ML to discuss issues"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":""},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"* The project either has followed the 4 Opens since its inception, *or* shows"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Projects that are"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor and projects that were seeded"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  with the release of a pre-existing code base are permitted, but projects that"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5f7c97a3_dd61add5","line":67,"range":{"start_line":67,"start_character":38,"end_line":67,"end_character":65},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_03c10c2f","updated":"2018-05-17 16:17:39.000000000","message":"For me that misses the point. A project where all of the key decisions were already made behind closed doors is considerably less likely to attract other contributors beyond the originating organisation than one that was open from the beginning.\n\nA project where all of the key decisions were made behind closed doors that has since been run in the open for an extended period of time without attracting any other contributors seems *vanishingly* unlikely to ever do so.\n\nWe\u0027re explicitly *not* counting out projects that started within companies, but we are asking them to show evidence that anybody else cares about them.","commit_id":"ef20d3306b3920d124741fb725c01bc807a58cdb"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"fec2242eec1f99046f15abbd338f6e9123b4e758","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Projects that are"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor and projects that were seeded"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  with the release of a pre-existing code base are permitted, but projects that"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  are in both categories present a higher level of risk."},{"line_number":72,"context_line":""},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"* The project ensures basic interoperability with the rest of OpenStack:"},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"  User-facing API services should support Keystone for discovery and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5f7c97a3_680b62d5","line":71,"range":{"start_line":71,"start_character":42,"end_line":71,"end_character":55},"updated":"2018-05-11 21:18:05.000000000","message":"\"level of risk\" of what?","commit_id":"ef20d3306b3920d124741fb725c01bc807a58cdb"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"57b02af8fa046af088ccc0a6f2709e242910db7e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Projects that are"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor and projects that were seeded"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  with the release of a pre-existing code base are permitted, but projects that"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  are in both categories present a higher level of risk."},{"line_number":72,"context_line":""},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"* The project ensures basic interoperability with the rest of OpenStack:"},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"  User-facing API services should support Keystone for discovery and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5f7c97a3_e76e93fe","line":71,"range":{"start_line":71,"start_character":42,"end_line":71,"end_character":55},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_4815469b","updated":"2018-05-15 08:52:22.000000000","message":"Proposed alternate wording, stating the end goal first: \n\n\"OpenStack projects are set up as neutral open collaborations, and therefore should welcome contributor diversity. New projects should either have followed the 4 Opens since their inception, *or* shown signs of diversification in their contributor affiliations.\"","commit_id":"ef20d3306b3920d124741fb725c01bc807a58cdb"},{"author":{"_account_id":4257,"name":"Zane Bitter","email":"zbitter@redhat.com","username":"zaneb"},"change_message_id":"bf50c6edffb1607eb1828d8d21cc8052f6701487","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Projects that are"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor and projects that were seeded"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  with the release of a pre-existing code base are permitted, but projects that"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  are in both categories present a higher level of risk."},{"line_number":72,"context_line":""},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"* The project ensures basic interoperability with the rest of OpenStack:"},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"  User-facing API services should support Keystone for discovery and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5f7c97a3_4815469b","line":71,"range":{"start_line":71,"start_character":42,"end_line":71,"end_character":55},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_680b62d5","updated":"2018-05-11 21:46:34.000000000","message":"I guess risk of failing to ever gain traction as a community project. I agree we need to make this less vague... the sentence had already gone on for quite a while and I was worried people might start to get tired :)","commit_id":"ef20d3306b3920d124741fb725c01bc807a58cdb"},{"author":{"_account_id":11655,"name":"Julia Kreger","email":"juliaashleykreger@gmail.com","username":"jkreger","status":"Flying to the moon with a Jetpack!"},"change_message_id":"a1a5c4425054b80a381dd2ca2b78bdc496b446d9","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Projects that are"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor and projects that were seeded"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  with the release of a pre-existing code base are permitted, but projects that"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  are in both categories present a higher level of risk."},{"line_number":72,"context_line":""},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"* The project ensures basic interoperability with the rest of OpenStack:"},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"  User-facing API services should support Keystone for discovery and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5f7c97a3_6f61cd11","line":71,"range":{"start_line":71,"start_character":42,"end_line":71,"end_character":55},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_8de47a3d","updated":"2018-05-17 01:13:21.000000000","message":"I\u0027m really uncomfortable with the use of the word risk in the current text in that it seems like we\u0027re attempting to manage risk, when that doesn\u0027t really seem to be the best way to present why the TC might not wish to approve a proposal for inclusion. It seems like community and common goals are better drivers of alignment (and thus inclusion), not risk aversion.","commit_id":"ef20d3306b3920d124741fb725c01bc807a58cdb"},{"author":{"_account_id":4257,"name":"Zane Bitter","email":"zbitter@redhat.com","username":"zaneb"},"change_message_id":"38c3d1b8589dc1a0f77653661b129032d3fafff2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Projects that are"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor and projects that were seeded"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  with the release of a pre-existing code base are permitted, but projects that"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  are in both categories present a higher level of risk."},{"line_number":72,"context_line":""},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"* The project ensures basic interoperability with the rest of OpenStack:"},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"  User-facing API services should support Keystone for discovery and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5f7c97a3_8de47a3d","line":71,"range":{"start_line":71,"start_character":42,"end_line":71,"end_character":55},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_c67b4cf2","updated":"2018-05-16 17:12:38.000000000","message":"The wording awkwardness is partly because this appears in a list headed \"The TC will check that:\". All of the other items in the list (except line 77) make sense when read as a sentence starting with those words.","commit_id":"ef20d3306b3920d124741fb725c01bc807a58cdb"},{"author":{"_account_id":2472,"name":"Doug Hellmann","email":"dhellmann@redhat.com","username":"doug-hellmann"},"change_message_id":"1d7e83da07f338217f98c025809fd442f2953ddc","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Projects that are"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor and projects that were seeded"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  with the release of a pre-existing code base are permitted, but projects that"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  are in both categories present a higher level of risk."},{"line_number":72,"context_line":""},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"* The project ensures basic interoperability with the rest of OpenStack:"},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"  User-facing API services should support Keystone for discovery and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5f7c97a3_c67b4cf2","line":71,"range":{"start_line":71,"start_character":42,"end_line":71,"end_character":55},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_e76e93fe","updated":"2018-05-15 18:17:49.000000000","message":"\u003e Proposed alternate wording, stating the end goal first:\n \u003e \n \u003e \"OpenStack projects are set up as neutral open collaborations, and\n \u003e therefore should welcome contributor diversity. New projects should\n \u003e either have followed the 4 Opens since their inception, *or* shown\n \u003e signs of diversification in their contributor affiliations.\"\n\n *or* show signs of diversification in their contributor affiliations before applying.","commit_id":"ef20d3306b3920d124741fb725c01bc807a58cdb"},{"author":{"_account_id":8482,"name":"Colleen Murphy","email":"colleen@gazlene.net","username":"krinkle"},"change_message_id":"fce220b2013fef37064e583630891995b3b8a7e7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":64,"context_line":"      public forums"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"    * The project uses the openstack-dev ML to discuss issues"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":""},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"* The project either has followed the 4 Opens since its inception, *or* shows"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Many critical"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  decisions in a project are taken near the beginning; if that process happened"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  without the involvement of the community then other evidence of community"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  acceptance is required to verify that the project is a neutral, open"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"5f7c97a3_0ad5a7b7","line":68,"range":{"start_line":67,"start_character":2,"end_line":68,"end_character":58},"updated":"2018-06-04 07:54:45.000000000","message":"This doesn\u0027t sit 100% right with me. For one thing, willingness to collaborate openly does not map 1:1 with diverse affiliation of collaborators; we have plenty of projects that are developed according to our values and yet are still essentially single-vendor. For another, it\u0027s a bit of a catch-22, since diversification of contributorship is related to visibility of the project, and visibility of the project comes from being official.","commit_id":"18490ea6f15c910d76ecf9a09b611bd7b4f14ec2"},{"author":{"_account_id":4257,"name":"Zane Bitter","email":"zbitter@redhat.com","username":"zaneb"},"change_message_id":"a4176b2c11db3f24f47ad4a3df495553d1689d24","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":64,"context_line":"      public forums"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"    * The project uses the openstack-dev ML to discuss issues"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":""},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"* The project either has followed the 4 Opens since its inception, *or* shows"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Many critical"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  decisions in a project are taken near the beginning; if that process happened"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  without the involvement of the community then other evidence of community"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  acceptance is required to verify that the project is a neutral, open"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"5f7c97a3_8cd309d6","line":68,"range":{"start_line":67,"start_character":2,"end_line":68,"end_character":58},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_0ad5a7b7","updated":"2018-06-04 16:48:27.000000000","message":"\u003e we have plenty of projects that are developed according to our values and yet are still essentially single-vendor\n\nHow many of those projects started life as code drops?","commit_id":"18490ea6f15c910d76ecf9a09b611bd7b4f14ec2"},{"author":{"_account_id":8482,"name":"Colleen Murphy","email":"colleen@gazlene.net","username":"krinkle"},"change_message_id":"270604f1d146a3d9e9cd0866dbe4dcf4d4fef50c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":64,"context_line":"      public forums"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"    * The project uses the openstack-dev ML to discuss issues"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":""},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"* The project either has followed the 4 Opens since its inception, *or* shows"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Many critical"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  decisions in a project are taken near the beginning; if that process happened"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  without the involvement of the community then other evidence of community"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  acceptance is required to verify that the project is a neutral, open"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"5f7c97a3_f2013808","line":68,"range":{"start_line":67,"start_character":2,"end_line":68,"end_character":58},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_8cd309d6","updated":"2018-06-04 18:44:37.000000000","message":"There are 11 projects tagged single-vendor right now. Tracking down each one\u0027s history and evaluating which ones seem like code drops is not something I want to spend [any more of] my time on, there seem to be a few examples from both extremes:\n\ntripleo - well we all know that story\ncharms - a project driven by an open source distro, the charms of course started their lives as open source projects\nsolum - started its life on github about a month and a half before being imported to stackforge http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/solum/log/?ofs\u003d1750\n\ntricircle - obvious code drop http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/tricircle/commit/?id\u003d0885397d105e739d9d37b3851d80da92fcc5e4a4\npowervm - also a code drop http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova-powervm/commit/?id\u003d49fab10357c42f8b52029e56f05f072a705e272a\n\nOthers are tough to judge without historical context. The point is, single-vendor does not necessarily \u003d\u003d code drop.","commit_id":"18490ea6f15c910d76ecf9a09b611bd7b4f14ec2"},{"author":{"_account_id":11655,"name":"Julia Kreger","email":"juliaashleykreger@gmail.com","username":"jkreger","status":"Flying to the moon with a Jetpack!"},"change_message_id":"7987bec76d7e59713fce7145cb5958e6d2ec7650","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":64,"context_line":"      public forums"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"    * The project uses the openstack-dev ML to discuss issues"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":""},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"* The project either has followed the 4 Opens since its inception, *or* shows"},{"line_number":68,"context_line":"  signs of diversification in its contributor affiliations. Many critical"},{"line_number":69,"context_line":"  decisions in a project are taken near the beginning; if that process happened"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"  without the involvement of the community then other evidence of community"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  acceptance is required to verify that the project is a neutral, open"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"5f7c97a3_574cb59c","line":68,"range":{"start_line":67,"start_character":2,"end_line":68,"end_character":58},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_f2013808","updated":"2018-06-14 14:27:57.000000000","message":"I think we need to define \"contributor\" for this sentence. Sometimes the scale of use of some of these largely currently viewed as single vendor efforts results in not just code contributions, but contributions of thought, feedback, requirements. It may just seem like background chatter on IRC, but it could be contributions that are just as powerful.","commit_id":"18490ea6f15c910d76ecf9a09b611bd7b4f14ec2"},{"author":{"_account_id":11655,"name":"Julia Kreger","email":"juliaashleykreger@gmail.com","username":"jkreger","status":"Flying to the moon with a Jetpack!"},"change_message_id":"7987bec76d7e59713fce7145cb5958e6d2ec7650","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  acceptance is required to verify that the project is a neutral, open"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"  collaboration. Projects that are overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor"},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"  and projects that were seeded with the release of a pre-existing code base"},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"  are still permitted, provided they do not fall into both categories."},{"line_number":75,"context_line":""},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"* The project ensures basic interoperability with the rest of OpenStack:"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"  User-facing API services should support Keystone for discovery and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"5f7c97a3_572b55e9","line":74,"range":{"start_line":74,"start_character":23,"end_line":74,"end_character":70},"updated":"2018-06-14 14:27:57.000000000","message":"This does not sit well with me because many initial efforts are going to be a single vendor with a couple engineers which may have even been proposed in the open only to be ignored due to different perception of the problem space. This eventually ends up looking like a code drop to all but the couple people who had that context from the initial discussions.\n\nAt the point a team has solved their problem and want to help others and the community, with the way this sentence is worded, they would always fall into both categories.  That is unless the categories are not the two stated in the sentence.\n\nI guess my objection is, based upon how I read this, it could be used to block any project from being accepted into the larger community and ecosystem.","commit_id":"18490ea6f15c910d76ecf9a09b611bd7b4f14ec2"},{"author":{"_account_id":4257,"name":"Zane Bitter","email":"zbitter@redhat.com","username":"zaneb"},"change_message_id":"7a701ca64c48a32d99d4bfecd7baffc0edb8c6b0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":71,"context_line":"  acceptance is required to verify that the project is a neutral, open"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"  collaboration. Projects that are overwhelmingly developed by a single vendor"},{"line_number":73,"context_line":"  and projects that were seeded with the release of a pre-existing code base"},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"  are still permitted, provided they do not fall into both categories."},{"line_number":75,"context_line":""},{"line_number":76,"context_line":"* The project ensures basic interoperability with the rest of OpenStack:"},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"  User-facing API services should support Keystone for discovery and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"5f7c97a3_987cb9b7","line":74,"range":{"start_line":74,"start_character":23,"end_line":74,"end_character":70},"in_reply_to":"5f7c97a3_572b55e9","updated":"2018-06-14 16:58:40.000000000","message":"\u003e many initial efforts are going to be a single vendor with a couple engineers which may have even been proposed in the open only to be ignored\n\nThat\u0027s totally following the 4 Opens since inception though.","commit_id":"18490ea6f15c910d76ecf9a09b611bd7b4f14ec2"}]}