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{"/PATCHSET_LEVEL":[{"author":{"_account_id":11655,"name":"Julia Kreger","email":"juliaashleykreger@gmail.com","username":"jkreger","status":"Flying to the moon with a Jetpack!"},"change_message_id":"c489751cbf8954b2f33d2f362a5f6826f012ff9a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[],"source_content_type":"","patch_set":1,"id":"57523589_7e859edd","updated":"2022-11-04 18:42:28.000000000","message":"As someone who has hearing damage in both ears and who struggles to follow conversations in general due to an audio discrimination disorder, I applaud this! Being in a text format makes it possible to join the discussion underway, or provide context I have when needed. It also helps me understand other\u0027s positions when I am unable to attend a call because I have a number of other conflicting calls. Thank you Jay!","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"f22eedaa1a76d9b7c785b202e635ed65231978b8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[],"source_content_type":"","patch_set":1,"id":"3db6b295_07cf8f8b","updated":"2022-11-04 18:44:11.000000000","message":"I am not onboard for no-agenda no-official-discussion office hour things. A few more comments inline.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":11292,"name":"Arne Wiebalck","email":"Arne.Wiebalck@cern.ch","username":"wiebalck"},"change_message_id":"0899a117cfb1294bd18818c22575c97bfa9f022d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[],"source_content_type":"","patch_set":1,"id":"03bef5f7_5105052c","updated":"2022-11-09 16:29:32.000000000","message":"Looking at all the points made I am not convinced we should give up the efficiency and TC team-building effect of the only 1-in-4, public, recorded, and summarized non-text-based call. ","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":16465,"name":"Kristi Nikolla","email":"knikolla@bu.edu","username":"knikolla"},"change_message_id":"f5cc5dbfc402ea4d7e32526ee7e1c1374c8265a8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[],"source_content_type":"","patch_set":1,"id":"1f434a0f_1d105661","updated":"2022-11-04 18:30:09.000000000","message":"Thank you for writing this so quickly Jay!","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"63ffc7ee414c5635f9ace77d180e3110519e5664","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[],"source_content_type":"","patch_set":1,"id":"9a0c1784_d5777469","updated":"2022-11-07 19:10:15.000000000","message":"This will need revision before it can land, that\u0027s obvious at this point, but I don\u0027t feel like that\u0027s a good use of my time until more TC members than just me indicate positive feelings for this resolution. I\u0027m happy to revise it if it gains more traction.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"97e3fc07a7fade36358897446dbeb146be1369a7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[],"source_content_type":"","patch_set":1,"id":"e395aa69_27836b42","in_reply_to":"57523589_7e859edd","updated":"2022-11-04 18:45:54.000000000","message":"How about virtual PTGs, are not those community events fall under this challenge (other than time conflict)? Should not those be stopped?","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"}],"resolutions/20211103-hold-weekly-meetings-in-IRC.rst":[{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"f22eedaa1a76d9b7c785b202e635ed65231978b8","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":17,"context_line":"as a fully logged, text based format. The TC has mitigated this somewhat"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"by putting up a video recording of the meeting on YouTube, and taking minimal"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"notes during video meetings in IRC but these are not a substitute for"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"searchable, detailed IRC logs and minutes."},{"line_number":21,"context_line":""},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"In an effort to increase transparency and accessibility of all TC official"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"business, we should resolve to no longer perform official business in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"28794149_16ed5459","line":20,"range":{"start_line":20,"start_character":41,"end_line":20,"end_character":42},"updated":"2022-11-04 18:44:11.000000000","message":"There is a benefits also for video call which is why we started it. It give more productive discussion then text meeting. From community to refer it, we do capture the recording and publish in public and sumamrize every discussion in my Friday TC summary email.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":4393,"name":"Dan Smith","email":"dms@danplanet.com","username":"danms"},"change_message_id":"8ea1591836f3267d3e25f8dd4b410fb58eb76818","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":17,"context_line":"as a fully logged, text based format. The TC has mitigated this somewhat"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"by putting up a video recording of the meeting on YouTube, and taking minimal"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"notes during video meetings in IRC but these are not a substitute for"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"searchable, detailed IRC logs and minutes."},{"line_number":21,"context_line":""},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"In an effort to increase transparency and accessibility of all TC official"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"business, we should resolve to no longer perform official business in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"dd1138eb_46df052e","line":20,"updated":"2022-11-04 18:41:54.000000000","message":"There\u0027s a significant downside to IRC/text-only as well. I certainly find myself less and less able to keep up with the fast and verbose typing required for meetings in IRC, and certainly end up expressing myself less in those meetings because of the effort involved.\n\nFurther, it is substantially harder to remain focused on an IRC meeting, when the pace is slower (due to the above) and other text-based pings are coming in at effectively the same level of priority. It certainly can be done, but there is, IMHO, a lot more involvement from everyone on the video calls.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":11975,"name":"Slawek Kaplonski","email":"skaplons@redhat.com","username":"slaweq"},"change_message_id":"1cd3bbd59f7fcf1ec64d9802ee759769314112ae","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":17,"context_line":"as a fully logged, text based format. The TC has mitigated this somewhat"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"by putting up a video recording of the meeting on YouTube, and taking minimal"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"notes during video meetings in IRC but these are not a substitute for"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"searchable, detailed IRC logs and minutes."},{"line_number":21,"context_line":""},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"In an effort to increase transparency and accessibility of all TC official"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"business, we should resolve to no longer perform official business in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"58a175ba_ce428e1e","line":20,"range":{"start_line":20,"start_character":41,"end_line":20,"end_character":42},"in_reply_to":"28794149_16ed5459","updated":"2022-11-16 15:55:56.000000000","message":"+1 for that. I actually joined TC when those video meetings were already happening once a month but I really found them productive and useful.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":4393,"name":"Dan Smith","email":"dms@danplanet.com","username":"danms"},"change_message_id":"907c6082e52afa345152d2f776c79bb64d040b39","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":17,"context_line":"as a fully logged, text based format. The TC has mitigated this somewhat"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"by putting up a video recording of the meeting on YouTube, and taking minimal"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"notes during video meetings in IRC but these are not a substitute for"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"searchable, detailed IRC logs and minutes."},{"line_number":21,"context_line":""},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"In an effort to increase transparency and accessibility of all TC official"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"business, we should resolve to no longer perform official business in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"ebc34ffc_7e7d601e","line":20,"in_reply_to":"5752b651_d07c69c1","updated":"2022-11-04 21:03:38.000000000","message":"Thanks for saying this. I was a little hesitant to confess my own difficulty in this regard, so it\u0027s comforting to know I\u0027m not the only one.\n\nAnd yeah, agree, having both options means nobody is forced to participate in one or the other.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":16465,"name":"Kristi Nikolla","email":"knikolla@bu.edu","username":"knikolla"},"change_message_id":"5b4094098aa6cb49486aff9e8159e4bce784fdf3","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":17,"context_line":"as a fully logged, text based format. The TC has mitigated this somewhat"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"by putting up a video recording of the meeting on YouTube, and taking minimal"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"notes during video meetings in IRC but these are not a substitute for"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"searchable, detailed IRC logs and minutes."},{"line_number":21,"context_line":""},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"In an effort to increase transparency and accessibility of all TC official"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"business, we should resolve to no longer perform official business in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5752b651_d07c69c1","line":20,"in_reply_to":"dd1138eb_46df052e","updated":"2022-11-04 19:09:05.000000000","message":"I also struggle with this on both fronts. There is no silver bullets that works well for everyone and all situations, that is why I like the mix of IRC meetings and video meetings.\n\nOftentimes IRC conversations move too fast and multiple people send messages at the same time, in the worst case with the conversation diverging into several simoultaneous threads as people respond to one or the other.\n\nI suffer from attention problems, so on the opposite side of the problem, oftentimes conversations move at a glacial pace and it is hard to keep focused, in particular with multiple things vying for attention.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"63ffc7ee414c5635f9ace77d180e3110519e5664","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":17,"context_line":"as a fully logged, text based format. The TC has mitigated this somewhat"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"by putting up a video recording of the meeting on YouTube, and taking minimal"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"notes during video meetings in IRC but these are not a substitute for"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"searchable, detailed IRC logs and minutes."},{"line_number":21,"context_line":""},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"In an effort to increase transparency and accessibility of all TC official"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"business, we should resolve to no longer perform official business in"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"eb272292_558b11a2","line":20,"in_reply_to":"ebc34ffc_7e7d601e","updated":"2022-11-07 19:10:15.000000000","message":"This is a fair criticism of a text-based meeting; I am of the opinion the downsides don\u0027t outweigh the benefits but I can understand this perspective. I often also feel pressure to multitask during TC meetings as well. It\u0027s still my opinion that the value of a full written record to our constituency outweighs the difficulties TC members may have while attending the meeting.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"f22eedaa1a76d9b7c785b202e635ed65231978b8","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":19,"context_line":"notes during video meetings in IRC but these are not a substitute for"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"searchable, detailed IRC logs and minutes."},{"line_number":21,"context_line":""},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"In an effort to increase transparency and accessibility of all TC official"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"business, we should resolve to no longer perform official business in"},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"non-written formats. An interested party should be able to read the meeting"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"agenda, minutes, and logs and be able to understand the decisions made and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"9436517b_5b8efdea","line":22,"range":{"start_line":22,"start_character":25,"end_line":22,"end_character":38},"updated":"2022-11-04 18:44:11.000000000","message":"I do not think we are breaking any transparency by conducting the video call. It is accessibility issue i agree but all video call are 1. public to join 2. recorded 3. recording published in public 4. summarized in text in weekly summary email\n\nWe should remove \u0027transparency\u0027 term.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"63ffc7ee414c5635f9ace77d180e3110519e5664","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":19,"context_line":"notes during video meetings in IRC but these are not a substitute for"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"searchable, detailed IRC logs and minutes."},{"line_number":21,"context_line":""},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"In an effort to increase transparency and accessibility of all TC official"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"business, we should resolve to no longer perform official business in"},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"non-written formats. An interested party should be able to read the meeting"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"agenda, minutes, and logs and be able to understand the decisions made and"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5cc889bf_06b3c377","line":22,"range":{"start_line":22,"start_character":25,"end_line":22,"end_character":38},"in_reply_to":"9436517b_5b8efdea","updated":"2022-11-07 19:10:15.000000000","message":"I\u0027ll revise it if it\u0027s likely to change your vote. But I do think text-based logs/transcripts are a more transparent format than recorded video meetings with minutes and saying it\u0027s more transparent to have that format is not inaccurate.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":4393,"name":"Dan Smith","email":"dms@danplanet.com","username":"danms"},"change_message_id":"8ea1591836f3267d3e25f8dd4b410fb58eb76818","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":24,"context_line":"non-written formats. An interested party should be able to read the meeting"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"agenda, minutes, and logs and be able to understand the decisions made and"},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"why they were made. This written record supports our values of having Open"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"Design and an Open Community."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"However, in order to continue serving the needs of our constituents who prefer"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"video formats, we should add a monthly video office hours with no set agenda."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"801b16d7_152f5ce8","line":27,"updated":"2022-11-04 18:41:54.000000000","message":"We can be transparent without everything being written, and certainly without the real-time communication happening in written form. A recording of the meeting is fully transparent, IMHO, and if understanding the speech is a problem, I would welcome someone like you volunteering to provide a high quality transcript of the video after it\u0027s posted.\n\nInclusivity is obviously something we need to aim for. However, it need not be absolute. If we *only* did video meetings, then the bar for participation would be \"can attend and be effective in a video meeting.\" However, we don\u0027t, and as such, if someone wants to bring something to the attention of the TC, they can certainly do that in 75% of the other meetings. I think it would also be more than okay for someone to ask that a topic be covered (or re-covered) in a text meeting if that works better for them.\n\nWe have quorum rules for meetings because not everyone can make every meeting. We don\u0027t *not* have the meeting because some people can\u0027t join. We also don\u0027t *not* have the meeting because someone in an opposed timezone can\u0027t make it. We have PTGs, summits, and in-person TC meetings even though not everyone can/will travel, and in rooms that can\u0027t possibly contain the whole community. We do this even though they\u0027re not fully inclusive, because there\u0027s a tradeoff between absolute inclusivity and productivity, and that tradeoff need not be considered to be *excluding* people that can\u0027t be there.\n\nI think a balance of video and text offers more than enough opportunity for people to participate in the way that works best for them. We shouldn\u0027t, IMHO, reduce our communication bar to the lowest common denominator any more than we should increase it to the point of requiring special hardware, software, subscriptions, or you know ... airplanes.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":11975,"name":"Slawek Kaplonski","email":"skaplons@redhat.com","username":"slaweq"},"change_message_id":"1cd3bbd59f7fcf1ec64d9802ee759769314112ae","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":24,"context_line":"non-written formats. An interested party should be able to read the meeting"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"agenda, minutes, and logs and be able to understand the decisions made and"},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"why they were made. This written record supports our values of having Open"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"Design and an Open Community."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"However, in order to continue serving the needs of our constituents who prefer"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"video formats, we should add a monthly video office hours with no set agenda."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"89e7206a_e2db4c52","line":27,"in_reply_to":"801b16d7_152f5ce8","updated":"2022-11-16 15:55:56.000000000","message":"+1 for all what Dan said here","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":16465,"name":"Kristi Nikolla","email":"knikolla@bu.edu","username":"knikolla"},"change_message_id":"bd3cae6f6987783ebed8bd89bfeff9a06132481c","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"why they were made. This written record supports our values of having Open"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"Design and an Open Community."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"However, in order to continue serving the needs of our constituents who prefer"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"video formats, we should add a monthly video office hours with no set agenda."},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"This time can be used for TC members to socialize with each others and anyone"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"invested in OpenStack who would like to join."},{"line_number":33,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"6529f246_4649a9fe","line":30,"range":{"start_line":29,"start_character":0,"end_line":30,"end_character":77},"updated":"2022-11-04 18:28:56.000000000","message":"I fear that this will make it very hard for people to justify attending and will lead to lackluster attendance like the office hours that we used to have prior.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"f22eedaa1a76d9b7c785b202e635ed65231978b8","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"why they were made. This written record supports our values of having Open"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"Design and an Open Community."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"However, in order to continue serving the needs of our constituents who prefer"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"video formats, we should add a monthly video office hours with no set agenda."},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"This time can be used for TC members to socialize with each others and anyone"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"invested in OpenStack who would like to join."},{"line_number":33,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"f03b047e_70396cab","line":30,"range":{"start_line":29,"start_character":0,"end_line":30,"end_character":77},"in_reply_to":"6529f246_4649a9fe","updated":"2022-11-04 18:44:11.000000000","message":"Agree, we have struggled a lot for the office hours for many years. We used to have 3 office hours for many years when we used to have TC meeting monthly. Then we reduced it to 2 and then 1 and closed it because 1. They are converted(weekly based time slot of TC ) to TC weekly meeting 2. there were almost 0 attendance in office hours.\n\nMeeting without an agenda seems not a good idea to me. If we need a good reason or until move TC meeting to monthly we should not start the office hour.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":11655,"name":"Julia Kreger","email":"juliaashleykreger@gmail.com","username":"jkreger","status":"Flying to the moon with a Jetpack!"},"change_message_id":"c489751cbf8954b2f33d2f362a5f6826f012ff9a","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"why they were made. This written record supports our values of having Open"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"Design and an Open Community."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"However, in order to continue serving the needs of our constituents who prefer"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"video formats, we should add a monthly video office hours with no set agenda."},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"This time can be used for TC members to socialize with each others and anyone"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"invested in OpenStack who would like to join."},{"line_number":33,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"33eb81ee_049db6d3","line":30,"range":{"start_line":29,"start_character":0,"end_line":30,"end_character":77},"in_reply_to":"6529f246_4649a9fe","updated":"2022-11-04 18:42:28.000000000","message":"Holding effective office hours *is* a challenge. For my context, the ironic community, for the first year of the pandemic, basically held an office-hours sort of social hour every week and it worked wonderfully in mutual context building. No set agenda, often we would get into detailed information/context sharing, which helped for later discussions. Sometimes we ended up in spec writing, and deep into feature development, but we were not making critical discussions for the whole of the project. But the key for us was building mutual context so you can have the difficult discussions later. That takes people also being able to engage on that level at that moment in time, and it is not *always* possible for every participant.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"63ffc7ee414c5635f9ace77d180e3110519e5664","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"why they were made. This written record supports our values of having Open"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"Design and an Open Community."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"However, in order to continue serving the needs of our constituents who prefer"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"video formats, we should add a monthly video office hours with no set agenda."},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"This time can be used for TC members to socialize with each others and anyone"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"invested in OpenStack who would like to join."},{"line_number":33,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"f40c3f9a_8adbf75f","line":30,"range":{"start_line":29,"start_character":0,"end_line":30,"end_character":77},"in_reply_to":"f03b047e_70396cab","updated":"2022-11-07 19:10:15.000000000","message":"I will drop the idea of office hours entirely from this resolution.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":4393,"name":"Dan Smith","email":"dms@danplanet.com","username":"danms"},"change_message_id":"8ea1591836f3267d3e25f8dd4b410fb58eb76818","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":29,"context_line":"However, in order to continue serving the needs of our constituents who prefer"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"video formats, we should add a monthly video office hours with no set agenda."},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"This time can be used for TC members to socialize with each others and anyone"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"invested in OpenStack who would like to join."},{"line_number":33,"context_line":""},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"Resolution"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"----------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"df9cbc34_c5c5bd72","line":32,"updated":"2022-11-04 18:41:54.000000000","message":"I\u0027m not sure how the socialization aspect got wrapped up in the discussion, but I hope it wasn\u0027t because of something I said. I don\u0027t think the video calls are better because I get to see people\u0027s dogs and people get to see the mess behind my desk. I think they\u0027re better because the communication is easier. I don\u0027t have any desire to reserve another hour on my calendar, especially with no agenda.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"63ffc7ee414c5635f9ace77d180e3110519e5664","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":29,"context_line":"However, in order to continue serving the needs of our constituents who prefer"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"video formats, we should add a monthly video office hours with no set agenda."},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"This time can be used for TC members to socialize with each others and anyone"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"invested in OpenStack who would like to join."},{"line_number":33,"context_line":""},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"Resolution"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"----------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"6bc486f3_9708a7e4","line":32,"in_reply_to":"df9cbc34_c5c5bd72","updated":"2022-11-07 19:10:15.000000000","message":"I firmly disagree that video communication is easier than text communication for all people. In fact; I think it can be more difficult for some people to engage in synchronous discussion. I\u0027ll point to the fact that even during my short tenure in the TC, during video meetings and PTG, we as a group has struggled with people talking over each other and sequencing feedback. I\u0027ve observed historically that at in-person PTGs (not-TC), this has happened as well and has led to silencing feedback.\n\nThese experiences (and this specific comment) is the most succinct way to communicate why I think IRC meetings are better.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":16465,"name":"Kristi Nikolla","email":"knikolla@bu.edu","username":"knikolla"},"change_message_id":"bd3cae6f6987783ebed8bd89bfeff9a06132481c","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":37,"context_line":"formats, such as IRC/Matrix chat."},{"line_number":38,"context_line":""},{"line_number":39,"context_line":"Reinstate a monthly Office Hours video hangout for TC members and constituents"},{"line_number":40,"context_line":"who prefer that format for fast synchronous communication and context"},{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"e19def48_d8c93cb0","line":42,"range":{"start_line":40,"start_character":27,"end_line":42,"end_character":10},"updated":"2022-11-04 18:28:56.000000000","message":"In my opinion, this is a very blurry distinction and is impossible to uphold. Context building inherently serves a business purpose. Are we going to stop people from having technical discussions at all? If not where do we draw the line?","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"63ffc7ee414c5635f9ace77d180e3110519e5664","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":37,"context_line":"formats, such as IRC/Matrix chat."},{"line_number":38,"context_line":""},{"line_number":39,"context_line":"Reinstate a monthly Office Hours video hangout for TC members and constituents"},{"line_number":40,"context_line":"who prefer that format for fast synchronous communication and context"},{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"ebcb2ad4_3ba220ce","line":42,"range":{"start_line":40,"start_character":27,"end_line":42,"end_character":10},"in_reply_to":"48f7a254_915a4b67","updated":"2022-11-07 19:10:15.000000000","message":"I struggled a lot with the wording of this. It\u0027s obvious I fell on the \"too aggressive\" side given this feedback :). The goal is just to make sure this doesn\u0027t become a 5th, stealth TC meeting every month.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"f22eedaa1a76d9b7c785b202e635ed65231978b8","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":37,"context_line":"formats, such as IRC/Matrix chat."},{"line_number":38,"context_line":""},{"line_number":39,"context_line":"Reinstate a monthly Office Hours video hangout for TC members and constituents"},{"line_number":40,"context_line":"who prefer that format for fast synchronous communication and context"},{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"48f7a254_915a4b67","line":42,"range":{"start_line":40,"start_character":27,"end_line":42,"end_character":10},"in_reply_to":"e19def48_d8c93cb0","updated":"2022-11-04 18:44:11.000000000","message":"I agree, I am not onboard on restarting the no-agenda office hour and \u0027WE CANNOT DISCUSS ANY TC OFFICIAL THIHG HERE\u0027","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":4393,"name":"Dan Smith","email":"dms@danplanet.com","username":"danms"},"change_message_id":"8ea1591836f3267d3e25f8dd4b410fb58eb76818","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"9ba48a34_67e7b042","line":45,"range":{"start_line":45,"start_character":27,"end_line":45,"end_character":35},"updated":"2022-11-04 18:41:54.000000000","message":"\"to take notes\" ?","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"f22eedaa1a76d9b7c785b202e635ed65231978b8","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"986fd815_d427e268","line":45,"range":{"start_line":44,"start_character":71,"end_line":45,"end_character":25},"updated":"2022-11-04 18:44:11.000000000","message":"I am not getting this why we need a non-TC to take note? and who will volunteer. It is not easy to get official non-TC volunteer to serve some TC work, election official are good example where TC members has to step up and run the election. \n\nI do not think we should add any restriction on who can take notes.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"63ffc7ee414c5635f9ace77d180e3110519e5664","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"ac2af6ac_bc71cb86","line":45,"range":{"start_line":44,"start_character":71,"end_line":45,"end_character":25},"in_reply_to":"986fd815_d427e268","updated":"2022-11-07 19:10:15.000000000","message":"I spent several years extremely early in my career covering (as a journalist for a weekly newspaper) small, locally elected boards -- school boards, county commissions, and town councils. I found in that experience, that often what I observed as an attendee of the meeting differed greatly from what was presented in minutes -- which were often assembled by a secretary serving on the board. Sometimes these differences were drastic; eliminating entire sections of the meeting in order to make the proceedings seem more orderly.\n\nMy desire to have someone separated from the debate be assigned to take these were twofold:\n- As a TC member, I\u0027d find it difficult to both participate in the meeting and create clear, detailed notes.\n- Given my history in journalism, I know that it can be difficult to write impartial complete notes; especially when those notes might expose discord between members.\n\nThis is also the primary reason why your summaries to the list, while excellent and accurate, do not IMO take the place of a high quality transcript. One of the reasons this conversation even happened in IRC was that minimalism that often comes out of minutes made some of the folks following along in IRC wonder what wasn\u0027t being included. Transparency is the driving force behind all of this, and is something I value highly -- and I want to fight any and all cases where we might appear opaque.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"038d56d8279d4e3f6fac41232cedb7e793cf3481","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"894b48a4_28b9c396","line":45,"range":{"start_line":44,"start_character":71,"end_line":45,"end_character":25},"in_reply_to":"ac2af6ac_bc71cb86","updated":"2022-11-07 19:11:54.000000000","message":"To be clear: that second point is not \"a TC member might write notes influenced by their bias\" and more \"someone might THINK a TC member is writing notes influenced by their bias\"","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":16465,"name":"Kristi Nikolla","email":"knikolla@bu.edu","username":"knikolla"},"change_message_id":"bd3cae6f6987783ebed8bd89bfeff9a06132481c","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"562b2acd_ff74366f","line":46,"range":{"start_line":44,"start_character":0,"end_line":46,"end_character":60},"updated":"2022-11-04 18:28:56.000000000","message":"I love this idea. Thank you for proposing this.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":4393,"name":"Dan Smith","email":"dms@danplanet.com","username":"danms"},"change_message_id":"8ea1591836f3267d3e25f8dd4b410fb58eb76818","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"3937aae6_0c058978","line":46,"updated":"2022-11-04 18:41:54.000000000","message":"Why does this person need to not be a member of the TC? The way this is worded, it sounds like we can\u0027t meet if we can\u0027t find someone to be our secretary. Is that the intent?\n\nAlso, why can\u0027t we (i.e. you) do this in a video call?","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":10342,"name":"Jay Faulkner","display_name":"JayF","email":"jay@jvf.cc","username":"JayF","status":"youtube.com/@oss-gr / podcast.gr-oss.io"},"change_message_id":"63ffc7ee414c5635f9ace77d180e3110519e5664","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"337e63bc_041fdf5b","line":46,"in_reply_to":"097e2f29_36b39573","updated":"2022-11-07 19:10:15.000000000","message":"Please see my above comment in response to gmann as a response to this comment.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"073d12a8eb85549c7821eb3f9757f7104c0e07b0","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"097e2f29_36b39573","line":46,"in_reply_to":"26aeec18_1d4beb5d","updated":"2022-11-04 18:57:32.000000000","message":"Sure, i am not saying non-tc cannot take notes, in PTG they do take. But we should not make that as a condition for TC to meet and exclude TC members not to take note.\n\nhummm for Video call complete or live notes, it will be too much work and I am sure no one want to transcript the live 1 hour recording. Why summarizing, recording the agreement and so are not enough?","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":16465,"name":"Kristi Nikolla","email":"knikolla@bu.edu","username":"knikolla"},"change_message_id":"0d5721df81dc70880ac11178a2b5396328d3d4a2","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"26aeec18_1d4beb5d","line":46,"in_reply_to":"3937aae6_0c058978","updated":"2022-11-04 18:53:58.000000000","message":"Taking notes takes significant concentration and focus which may preclude the attendant, if a TC member, from participating in the discussion. But I\u0027m okay with the note-taker being a TC member as well.\n\nI agree that we should do this for video meetings as well, if necessary going through the video recording to extend the live notes.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":8556,"name":"Ghanshyam Maan","display_name":"Ghanshyam Maan","email":"gmaan.os14@gmail.com","username":"ghanshyam"},"change_message_id":"f22eedaa1a76d9b7c785b202e635ed65231978b8","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"e2ada125_050f3b2c","line":46,"range":{"start_line":44,"start_character":0,"end_line":46,"end_character":60},"in_reply_to":"562b2acd_ff74366f","updated":"2022-11-04 18:44:11.000000000","message":"meeting notes are good idea and that is what we do even in virtual meetings. I think along with in-person we do meet in virtual PTGs, we should include those also here.","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"},{"author":{"_account_id":11975,"name":"Slawek Kaplonski","email":"skaplons@redhat.com","username":"slaweq"},"change_message_id":"1cd3bbd59f7fcf1ec64d9802ee759769314112ae","unresolved":true,"context_lines":[{"line_number":41,"context_line":"building. At no time shall this be a business meeting where decisions are made"},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"by the TC."},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""},{"line_number":44,"context_line":"Meetings that are held in person should include a note taking observer, who"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"is not a member of the TC, to notes and provide a written summary of the"},{"line_number":46,"context_line":"meeting to ensure equal access to the information discussed."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"181848fb_29ee4ac9","line":46,"range":{"start_line":44,"start_character":0,"end_line":46,"end_character":60},"in_reply_to":"e2ada125_050f3b2c","updated":"2022-11-16 15:55:56.000000000","message":"so why we can\u0027t just add the same rule to our monthly video meeting? Maybe it would be good tradeoff between having good text based notes and more productive (for some of us at least) video meeting once a month?","commit_id":"2ff2ccb9a4e6204e908a930b2fa97bef641e83ae"}]}