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{"/COMMIT_MSG":[{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"53c4c72b43eb681c5731e580ca767be01a824746","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"There has been a lot of discussion about how the current \"Neutron"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"stadium\" is working out.  Consensus seems to be that it has grown"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"quickly beyond what makes since as a single official OpenStack team."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":"The first step for scaling things back is agreeing on some additional"},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"inclusion criteria that helps with drawing the line for what should be"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"an independent OpenStack project.  See the following thread on the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":1,"id":"5a5ae5dd_0cc20534","line":11,"range":{"start_line":11,"start_character":26,"end_line":11,"end_character":31},"updated":"2016-02-03 21:00:09.000000000","message":"nit: sense","commit_id":"d43561d55eaaf6446531297136afcc4611a4144a"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"b5bc987fa9bf54e02c58d99c92dc4e99922edb23","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"There has been a lot of discussion about how the current \"Neutron"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"stadium\" is working out.  Consensus seems to be that it has grown"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"quickly beyond what makes since as a single official OpenStack team."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":"The first step for scaling things back is agreeing on some additional"},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"inclusion criteria that helps with drawing the line for what should be"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"an independent OpenStack project.  See the following thread on the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":1,"id":"5a5ae5dd_63b4e7f1","line":11,"range":{"start_line":11,"start_character":26,"end_line":11,"end_character":31},"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_0cc20534","updated":"2016-02-03 21:32:18.000000000","message":"I blame my head cold","commit_id":"d43561d55eaaf6446531297136afcc4611a4144a"},{"author":{"_account_id":13995,"name":"Nate Johnston","email":"nate.johnston@redhat.com","username":"natejohnston"},"change_message_id":"a4b426ab08834a1eb3ce882e1f57210e1ea4c7df","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"There has been a lot of discussion about how the current \"Neutron"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"stadium\" is working out.  Consensus seems to be that it has grown"},{"line_number":11,"context_line":"quickly beyond what makes since as a single official OpenStack team."},{"line_number":12,"context_line":"The first step for scaling things back is agreeing on some additional"},{"line_number":13,"context_line":"inclusion criteria that helps with drawing the line for what should be"},{"line_number":14,"context_line":"an independent OpenStack project.  See the following thread on the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":3,"id":"5a5ae5dd_606dbd03","line":11,"range":{"start_line":11,"start_character":26,"end_line":11,"end_character":31},"updated":"2016-02-03 21:26:05.000000000","message":"s/since/sense/","commit_id":"6c9be90986b5b7a76d35de8c5074a53bf0a19391"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"There are likely a lot of questions about why a repository is in one"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"group or the other.  There is a ton of grey area and it\u0027s likely a waste"},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"of time to try to elimitate all of it  I\u0027ll try to capture some of the"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"justification here for the less obvious cases:"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"Q: What about *aaS?  Should they be separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_dcf33109","line":26,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"I this this FAQ should not be lost and move under the devref itself.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"443058b8517409e08429a3a4d4a71a06a67a5eca","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"There are likely a lot of questions about why a repository is in one"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"group or the other.  There is a ton of grey area and it\u0027s likely a waste"},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"of time to try to elimitate all of it  I\u0027ll try to capture some of the"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"justification here for the less obvious cases:"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"Q: What about *aaS?  Should they be separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_da86b564","line":26,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_cab6f1db","updated":"2016-02-04 14:26:44.000000000","message":"+1000, will add in re-spin.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"e483d95075bf8154e520a067a9e96f4f0de75217","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"There are likely a lot of questions about why a repository is in one"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"group or the other.  There is a ton of grey area and it\u0027s likely a waste"},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"of time to try to elimitate all of it  I\u0027ll try to capture some of the"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"justification here for the less obvious cases:"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"Q: What about *aaS?  Should they be separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_cab6f1db","line":26,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_dcf33109","updated":"2016-02-04 10:24:08.000000000","message":"+1","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"e8fcfd9e3538728a1ad2ae991af7b27de574faf2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":31,"context_line":"A: If they were started again today, they would very likely be done"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"   as new project teams.  They are kept under Neutron for now for"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"   historical reasons, but that may change for some *aaS in the future."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"   Octavia is the open source reference implementation for"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"   neutron-lbaas, so it remains included as well."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-ovs-dpdk separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_2478198f","line":34,"updated":"2016-02-04 11:14:23.000000000","message":"Before that, when haproxy was the reference, we felt fine to have it outside the stadium. With that in mind, I see Octavia should not be supervised by the same team that delivers Neutron.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"443058b8517409e08429a3a4d4a71a06a67a5eca","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":31,"context_line":"A: If they were started again today, they would very likely be done"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"   as new project teams.  They are kept under Neutron for now for"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"   historical reasons, but that may change for some *aaS in the future."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"   Octavia is the open source reference implementation for"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"   neutron-lbaas, so it remains included as well."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-ovs-dpdk separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_5adac579","line":34,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_2478198f","updated":"2016-02-04 14:26:44.000000000","message":"Honestly, I\u0027m fine with either.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":31,"context_line":"A: If they were started again today, they would very likely be done"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"   as new project teams.  They are kept under Neutron for now for"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"   historical reasons, but that may change for some *aaS in the future."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"   Octavia is the open source reference implementation for"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"   neutron-lbaas, so it remains included as well."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-ovs-dpdk separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_051f0e60","line":34,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_5adac579","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"Doug mentioned that it makes the most practical sense to couple neutron-lbaas and octavia while they work to split both out of neutron at the same time.  That seems reasonable.  We could document that in the FAW.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"e483d95075bf8154e520a067a9e96f4f0de75217","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"   as new project teams.  They are kept under Neutron for now for"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"   historical reasons, but that may change for some *aaS in the future."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"   Octavia is the open source reference implementation for"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"   neutron-lbaas, so it remains included as well."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-ovs-dpdk separate?"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_4aa441a5","line":35,"updated":"2016-02-04 10:24:08.000000000","message":"Also note that the *aas are currently released together with neutron core as a single \"deliverable\". So if a split ends up being desirable, it would be preferable to do that on a release cycle boundary.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"   as new project teams.  They are kept under Neutron for now for"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"   historical reasons, but that may change for some *aaS in the future."},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"   Octavia is the open source reference implementation for"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"   neutron-lbaas, so it remains included as well."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-ovs-dpdk separate?"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_4543c642","line":35,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_4aa441a5","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"makes sense","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":37,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-ovs-dpdk separate?"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":""},{"line_number":39,"context_line":"A: The code in this repository is being folded into neutron, so"},{"line_number":40,"context_line":"   we expect this repository to go away."},{"line_number":41,"context_line":""},{"line_number":42,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-onos separate?"},{"line_number":43,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_bc47551c","line":40,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"There are technical implications as to why this may never happen (folding into Neutron, I mean). It\u0027s my understanding that the existing ovs-dpdk repo contains a stateless firewall driver for ovs which I don\u0027t think we\u0027ll ever want to support in Neutron itself. So for that reason, this repo may be kept out and exist for as long as the authors want to keep this driver alive and kicking.\n\nIn a nutshell, let\u0027s say that there may be repos that were created too fast or without thinking too hard on what their mission was, and I expect some of them will just have to be \u0027aborted\u0027.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":44,"context_line":"A: ONOS is indeed open source, but the team seems largely independent"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"   and the repository has seen relatively few commits."},{"line_number":46,"context_line":""},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-l2gw included but networking-sfc separate?"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":""},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"A: In both cases, these are relatively new experimental APIs that"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"   are good candidates for being separated out.  networking-l2gw"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_fce06dfc","line":47,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"If we follow the criteria (as outlined in the sub_projects.rst file) I think they both should be included. I would imagine it\u0027s the PTL or drivers team job to reassess team overlap and technologies adopted on a release cadence basis, but as of now, unless the intersection is empty, I\u0027d say sfc has the same rights of l2gw to stay in (or out)","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":44,"context_line":"A: ONOS is indeed open source, but the team seems largely independent"},{"line_number":45,"context_line":"   and the repository has seen relatively few commits."},{"line_number":46,"context_line":""},{"line_number":47,"context_line":"Q: Why is networking-l2gw included but networking-sfc separate?"},{"line_number":48,"context_line":""},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"A: In both cases, these are relatively new experimental APIs that"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"   are good candidates for being separated out.  networking-l2gw"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_c59c96c2","line":47,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_fce06dfc","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"That\u0027s totally fine with me.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":16983,"name":"Eshed Gal-Or","email":"eshed.galor@huawei.com","username":"eshedg"},"change_message_id":"5eb32dcb36b9289e8cc45ba29a97749b7381cf35","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":48,"context_line":""},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"A: In both cases, these are relatively new experimental APIs that"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"   are good candidates for being separated out.  networking-l2gw"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"   seems to have more significant team overlap, so it seems to"},{"line_number":52,"context_line":"   make sense to keep it under Neutron for now."},{"line_number":53,"context_line":""},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"Q: Why is -ovn included, but other drivers separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_64fa96bf","line":51,"range":{"start_line":51,"start_character":34,"end_line":51,"end_character":46},"updated":"2016-02-04 10:16:48.000000000","message":"right now, the projects are arrange by subject matter.\n\"team overlap\" suggests it becomes a personnel-based arrangement.  \nwhat happens if people change and teams no longer overlap? do you re-arrange the projects?","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":48,"context_line":""},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"A: In both cases, these are relatively new experimental APIs that"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"   are good candidates for being separated out.  networking-l2gw"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"   seems to have more significant team overlap, so it seems to"},{"line_number":52,"context_line":"   make sense to keep it under Neutron for now."},{"line_number":53,"context_line":""},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"Q: Why is -ovn included, but other drivers separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_a5ce3ab2","line":51,"range":{"start_line":51,"start_character":34,"end_line":51,"end_character":46},"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_64fa96bf","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"roughly, yes.  The OpenStack governance project structure reflects what a loosely defined team of people work on together.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":16983,"name":"Eshed Gal-Or","email":"eshed.galor@huawei.com","username":"eshedg"},"change_message_id":"0003db2ff061d4dfd56cbcf992d2ffa3e842d3d4","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":48,"context_line":""},{"line_number":49,"context_line":"A: In both cases, these are relatively new experimental APIs that"},{"line_number":50,"context_line":"   are good candidates for being separated out.  networking-l2gw"},{"line_number":51,"context_line":"   seems to have more significant team overlap, so it seems to"},{"line_number":52,"context_line":"   make sense to keep it under Neutron for now."},{"line_number":53,"context_line":""},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"Q: Why is -ovn included, but other drivers separate?"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_9ad4b820","line":51,"range":{"start_line":51,"start_character":34,"end_line":51,"end_character":46},"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_a5ce3ab2","updated":"2016-02-04 16:26:26.000000000","message":"maybe I misunderstood your answer... are you saying that the \"team\" is the constant?","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":7715,"name":"Hirofumi Ichihara","email":"ichihara.hirofumi@gmail.com","username":"Hirofumi-Ichihara"},"change_message_id":"14a4677ee08af493e4bb34ac8a64d8c4f018aacb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":53,"context_line":""},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"Q: Why is -ovn included, but other drivers separate?"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":""},{"line_number":56,"context_line":"A: OVN fits the criteria of being open source and also having"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"   significant overlap with the main Neutron team."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":""},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"Q: Why is -odl separate?"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_2da575b4","line":57,"range":{"start_line":56,"start_character":0,"end_line":57,"end_character":50},"updated":"2016-02-04 00:39:02.000000000","message":"Just question: OVN itself is managed outside of Neutron community, that is ovs community. Neutron community doesn\u0027t have the decision-making for OVN. I\u0027m not sure what other open sources are defferent from OVN: ODL, Midonet, ONOS, Ofagent(although this will be removed).","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":53,"context_line":""},{"line_number":54,"context_line":"Q: Why is -ovn included, but other drivers separate?"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":""},{"line_number":56,"context_line":"A: OVN fits the criteria of being open source and also having"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"   significant overlap with the main Neutron team."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":""},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"Q: Why is -odl separate?"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_3cbe05d5","line":57,"range":{"start_line":56,"start_character":0,"end_line":57,"end_character":50},"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_2da575b4","updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"significant might be an overstatement, but ok.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"443058b8517409e08429a3a4d4a71a06a67a5eca","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":54,"context_line":"Q: Why is -ovn included, but other drivers separate?"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":""},{"line_number":56,"context_line":"A: OVN fits the criteria of being open source and also having"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"   significant overlap with the main Neutron team."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":""},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"Q: Why is -odl separate?"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_9a459d18","line":57,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_3cbe05d5","updated":"2016-02-04 14:26:44.000000000","message":"Honestly, as a core on networking-ovn, I\u0027m fine with it being out as well. It would quite easily withstand an application to become part of the Big Tent on it\u0027s own, as would a fair number of these other networking-* open source projects.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":54,"context_line":"Q: Why is -ovn included, but other drivers separate?"},{"line_number":55,"context_line":""},{"line_number":56,"context_line":"A: OVN fits the criteria of being open source and also having"},{"line_number":57,"context_line":"   significant overlap with the main Neutron team."},{"line_number":58,"context_line":""},{"line_number":59,"context_line":"Q: Why is -odl separate?"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_45742667","line":57,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_9a459d18","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"OVN itself is a part of OVS, yes.  networking-ovn is a part of Neutron.  You can look it the same as the split between the existing OVS integration and OVS itself.  OVN is a part of OVS and networking-ovn is the Neutron counter-part for supporting this new OVS integration point.\n\nGiven how important OVS support is to Neutron, and given the team overlap (Kyle and myself are driving it), having this as an experimental thing under Neutron seems pretty reasonable to me.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":59,"context_line":"Q: Why is -odl separate?"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":""},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"A: ODL is open source, but unlike OVN, it has additional functionality"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"   outside the scope of Neutron."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":""},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_5c77413a","line":62,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"I think it\u0027s wrong to play the \u0027scope\u0027 card in this context, as it complicates the criteria assessment greatly. Besides, we all know some of these projects are still morphing up. Is it OVN just about networking virtualization? Is it Neutron, Is it ODL? I don\u0027t think we can make this decision today and fairly say it\u0027s gonna stay true in a month\u0027s time, let alone a cycle, so please, it\u0027s either both odl and ovn in or both out.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"426139a802145e003bbc312135713a332bfb7b56","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":59,"context_line":"Q: Why is -odl separate?"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":""},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"A: ODL is open source, but unlike OVN, it has additional functionality"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"   outside the scope of Neutron."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":""},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_6bc7b145","line":62,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_45fbc6c1","updated":"2016-02-04 15:17:43.000000000","message":"I suppose I should comment more on Dragonflow.\n\nI think the fact that it *does* implement more of the stack makes it an even stronger candidate to stand on its own.  It\u0027s similar to Astara.  There\u0027s a team around it and it implements more of the stack, not just a simple driver.  So, that seemed to make sense to be separate.  I should add this to the FAQ.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":16983,"name":"Eshed Gal-Or","email":"eshed.galor@huawei.com","username":"eshedg"},"change_message_id":"5eb32dcb36b9289e8cc45ba29a97749b7381cf35","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":59,"context_line":"Q: Why is -odl separate?"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":""},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"A: ODL is open source, but unlike OVN, it has additional functionality"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"   outside the scope of Neutron."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":""},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_8ab479f2","line":62,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_5c77413a","updated":"2016-02-04 10:16:48.000000000","message":"it seems to me that the only SDN implementation right now that is completely under the OpenStack Neutron governance (which means Neutron can count on to align with its models, roadmap, milestones, etc.), as well as is manageable in terms of code-size and feature-focus, is dragonflow.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":59,"context_line":"Q: Why is -odl separate?"},{"line_number":60,"context_line":""},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"A: ODL is open source, but unlike OVN, it has additional functionality"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"   outside the scope of Neutron."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":""},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_45fbc6c1","line":62,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_8ab479f2","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"I dont\u0027 see dragonflow as related to the ODL bullet point.\n\nI agree that \"scope\" is a weak point around ODL.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":60,"context_line":""},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"A: ODL is open source, but unlike OVN, it has additional functionality"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"   outside the scope of Neutron."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":""},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_fc862dda","line":63,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"there might not be overlap, but http://www.projectcalico.org/ is fully open source, is it not? Might be worth mentioning something about it. The open source project driven by a single vendor is a dubious card to be honest, if it\u0027s open it\u0027s open.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"443058b8517409e08429a3a4d4a71a06a67a5eca","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":60,"context_line":""},{"line_number":61,"context_line":"A: ODL is open source, but unlike OVN, it has additional functionality"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":"   outside the scope of Neutron."},{"line_number":63,"context_line":""},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_3a74a966","line":63,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_fc862dda","updated":"2016-02-04 14:26:44.000000000","message":"Fully open source and follows the four OpenStack Opens are not the same thing.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"c888df3b077d9b31ab8b07d186babff8f0548b8a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":19,"context_line":"This patch implements a new compromise based on the above discussion."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"It documents some criteria to guide the decision of whether a repository"},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"makes sense to be under Neutron or a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"It also documents the repository split based on this criteria."},{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"There are likely a lot of questions about why a repository is in one"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"group or the other.  There is a ton of grey area and it\u0027s likely a waste"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_d3477249","line":22,"updated":"2016-02-04 19:31:42.000000000","message":"I think it\u0027s wiser to discuss this in a separate follow-up patch. The criteria can be a lot easier to agree on whereas inclusion vs exclusion has same grey area we need to walk into.\n\nPotentially we could even have an inclusion/exclusion patch per project, but that\u0027s only if Doug wants to bike shed on every single one of them","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"9420c4de4fdf181b6f72af845fc4b6e082fda034","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":19,"context_line":"This patch implements a new compromise based on the above discussion."},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"It documents some criteria to guide the decision of whether a repository"},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"makes sense to be under Neutron or a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"It also documents the repository split based on this criteria."},{"line_number":23,"context_line":""},{"line_number":24,"context_line":"There are likely a lot of questions about why a repository is in one"},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"group or the other.  There is a ton of grey area and it\u0027s likely a waste"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_1348aa2c","line":22,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_d3477249","updated":"2016-02-04 19:39:12.000000000","message":"OK, splitting this up seems like a good idea.  I\u0027ll take a stab at that.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"38a74cb5cd27d3669671098f966c35e3934dd052","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"of time to try to elimitate all of it.  The patch includes a FAQ section"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"to capture some of the justification for less obvious cases."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_595c01ed","line":29,"updated":"2016-02-04 20:24:24.000000000","message":"oh and btw if I kyle gets credit, I want credit too :P","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"3a670d107c0934d0ffd43c9e38cc0b7f02023051","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"of time to try to elimitate all of it.  The patch includes a FAQ section"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"to capture some of the justification for less obvious cases."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_b4dc1c13","line":29,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_34b58ced","updated":"2016-02-04 20:54:34.000000000","message":"laaaaaaame","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"21f133455bd45c5141fe7bd15763c7b4b1a257f8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"of time to try to elimitate all of it.  The patch includes a FAQ section"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"to capture some of the justification for less obvious cases."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_34b58ced","line":29,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_595c01ed","updated":"2016-02-04 20:52:01.000000000","message":"I\u0027m fine with that, though I did push a version of this patch.\n\n;)","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"61b5fbff9f279ad1533d4cf0c8987194664ed8d4","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"of time to try to elimitate all of it.  The patch includes a FAQ section"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"to capture some of the justification for less obvious cases."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_c8549822","line":29,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_b4dc1c13","updated":"2016-02-04 21:33:22.000000000","message":"You know you want to push a version of this patch. Admit it. It\u0027s ok. We all understand.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"df51833114b833c9481a9812475c617c8add20c2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":26,"context_line":"of time to try to elimitate all of it.  The patch includes a FAQ section"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"to capture some of the justification for less obvious cases."},{"line_number":28,"context_line":""},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"Co-Authored-By: Kyle Mestery \u003cmestery@mestery.com\u003e"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_4b866214","line":29,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_c8549822","updated":"2016-02-04 21:46:48.000000000","message":"I just saw this.  I\u0027m happy to add you, Armando.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"6484be1c4928e4f2dcf6efe7f84b9b363148eede","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":4,"context_line":"Commit:     Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"CommitDate: 2016-02-09 17:32:08 -0500"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":""},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"stadium: Add a guideline about contributor overlap."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_5f6c459c","line":7,"updated":"2016-02-09 23:59:21.000000000","message":"There is going to be one or more patches that remove projects based on this criterion. Should we mention this here to manage expectations? I don\u0027t see any pending in your queue.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"9ae2f959fd5efa3b35d07ae9cf8372f63e1482c1","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":4,"context_line":"Commit:     Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"CommitDate: 2016-02-09 17:32:08 -0500"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":""},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"stadium: Add a guideline about contributor overlap."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_66070a1d","line":7,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_08d1a0cd","updated":"2016-02-10 19:50:34.000000000","message":"I wasn\u0027t planning on applying this right now.  I only wanted to establish that \"we care about overlap\".  The definition of overlap and how much overlap matters is going to be a little different to everyone, but I was hoping that we could agree on the general idea that we care about it.\n\nWriting it down without applying it to any existing projects is at least useful to establish what is being considered when considering new repos.  There are several of those in the queue right now.\n\nI know I had some previous patches applying this criteria, but that application was by far the most controversial, so I\u0027d rather drop it for now and see if we can just agree that this matters at all.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"acd4e6e87413535ad75b8932eb6f94fb523df7bb","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":4,"context_line":"Commit:     Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"CommitDate: 2016-02-09 17:32:08 -0500"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":""},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"stadium: Add a guideline about contributor overlap."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_08d1a0cd","line":7,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_5f6c459c","updated":"2016-02-10 12:26:31.000000000","message":"It would actually be interesting to see the follow up before going forward with the criteria patch. This is to make sure we understand how those criteria apply before we approve wording that may only evoke more controversions when we start to go thru projects case by case.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":261,"name":"Salvatore Orlando","email":"salv.orlando@gmail.com","username":"salvatore-orlando"},"change_message_id":"a0f3f6c36965d010edb92515493e4088a3d0c22c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":4,"context_line":"Commit:     Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"CommitDate: 2016-02-09 17:32:08 -0500"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":""},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"stadium: Add a guideline about contributor overlap."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_2f1106ad","line":7,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_5f6c459c","updated":"2016-02-10 11:15:32.000000000","message":"meh","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":8124,"name":"cbrandily","email":"zzelle@gmail.com","username":"cbrandily"},"change_message_id":"4258948569ff45b9e2a5269fc7eaaeede34480db","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":4,"context_line":"Commit:     Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"CommitDate: 2016-02-09 17:32:08 -0500"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":""},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"stadium: Add a guideline about contributor overlap."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"Change-Id: Ie8e65a94ff9ec238e7c28a8b85d92835675d0c4c"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"Signed-off-by: Russell Bryant \u003crbryant@redhat.com\u003e"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-gerrit-commit-message","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_c651d437","line":7,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_66070a1d","updated":"2016-02-11 23:29:57.000000000","message":"It seems to me that the criteria application looks like more controversial than the criteria itself because it\u0027s easier (and more explicit) to challenge the criteria application than the criteria directly.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"}],"doc/source/stadium/sub_projects.rst":[{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"53c4c72b43eb681c5731e580ca767be01a824746","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":127,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":128,"context_line":"| networking-l2gw_              | l2                    |"},{"line_number":129,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":130,"context_line":"| networking-odl_               | ml2,l3,lb,fw          |"},{"line_number":131,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":132,"context_line":"| networking-ovn_               | core                  |"},{"line_number":133,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5a5ae5dd_0c1e85ba","line":130,"range":{"start_line":130,"start_character":13,"end_line":130,"end_character":16},"updated":"2016-02-03 21:00:09.000000000","message":"ODL has its own release team, and would strike me as not belonging in this list.","commit_id":"d43561d55eaaf6446531297136afcc4611a4144a"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"71216090f1143245adc592fb5889595e44eaad9b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":127,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":128,"context_line":"| networking-l2gw_              | l2                    |"},{"line_number":129,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":130,"context_line":"| networking-odl_               | ml2,l3,lb,fw          |"},{"line_number":131,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":132,"context_line":"| networking-ovn_               | core                  |"},{"line_number":133,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5a5ae5dd_006ac980","line":130,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_0c1e85ba","updated":"2016-02-03 21:09:56.000000000","message":"What am I missing, it uses neutron-release:\n\nhttps://github.com/openstack-infra/project-config/blob/master/gerrit/acls/openstack/networking-odl.config#L18","commit_id":"d43561d55eaaf6446531297136afcc4611a4144a"},{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"53c4c72b43eb681c5731e580ca767be01a824746","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":146,"context_line":"| python-neutronclient_         | client                |"},{"line_number":147,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":148,"context_line":""},{"line_number":149,"context_line":"Affiliated projects"},{"line_number":150,"context_line":"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"},{"line_number":151,"context_line":""},{"line_number":152,"context_line":"This table shows the affiliated projects that integrate with Neutron,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5a5ae5dd_acc73111","line":149,"range":{"start_line":149,"start_character":0,"end_line":149,"end_character":10},"updated":"2016-02-03 21:00:09.000000000","message":"So I might\u0027ve missed it, but are the items on the affiliated list being removed from the neutron governance list?  I\u0027m pretty sure you implied it nine different ways, but I\u0027m double-checking.","commit_id":"d43561d55eaaf6446531297136afcc4611a4144a"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"b5bc987fa9bf54e02c58d99c92dc4e99922edb23","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":146,"context_line":"| python-neutronclient_         | client                |"},{"line_number":147,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":148,"context_line":""},{"line_number":149,"context_line":"Affiliated projects"},{"line_number":150,"context_line":"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"},{"line_number":151,"context_line":""},{"line_number":152,"context_line":"This table shows the affiliated projects that integrate with Neutron,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5a5ae5dd_039df364","line":149,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_60ab7d8a","updated":"2016-02-03 21:32:18.000000000","message":"though encouraged to apply as independent teams if they desire to","commit_id":"d43561d55eaaf6446531297136afcc4611a4144a"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"4b91fb628b5c89d2cfa448e66aa8926c0fca8fa2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":146,"context_line":"| python-neutronclient_         | client                |"},{"line_number":147,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":148,"context_line":""},{"line_number":149,"context_line":"Affiliated projects"},{"line_number":150,"context_line":"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"},{"line_number":151,"context_line":""},{"line_number":152,"context_line":"This table shows the affiliated projects that integrate with Neutron,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"5a5ae5dd_60ab7d8a","line":149,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_acc73111","updated":"2016-02-03 21:12:02.000000000","message":"Yes, they go away as being official openstack projects whose contributors get ATC status. Just to make that clear too.","commit_id":"d43561d55eaaf6446531297136afcc4611a4144a"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have significant overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  If the teams are mostly separate, that\u0027s"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  a good sign that the project should be separate."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_9c2619cd","line":90,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"is the overlap on neutron cores?","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have significant overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  If the teams are mostly separate, that\u0027s"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  a good sign that the project should be separate."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_05786e29","line":90,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_9c2619cd","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"fair question.  I\u0027d say it\u0027s loosely defined as contributor overlap, in terms of contributions of reviews/commits/docs.  I\u0027d really rather avoid having to define this down to detailed numbers.  It\u0027d be nice if we can roughly describe intent and let it be a judgement call by PTL+team using this as rough guidance.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  a good sign that the project should be separate."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or a mostly single vendor driven"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"  open source project), it should be a separate project."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_1c2c6901","line":93,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"I\u0027d drop the reference qualifier here, but not strongly opinionated one way or another.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  a good sign that the project should be separate."},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or a mostly single vendor driven"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"  open source project), it should be a separate project."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_05af0e82","line":93,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_1c2c6901","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"fine with me","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"3c6f183825977cbb425591bac6c50cfbee421597","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":93,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or a mostly single vendor driven"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"  open source project), it should be a separate project."},{"line_number":97,"context_line":""},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"The end result should be a set of OpenStack projects that more accurately"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"reflects the teams of people working on things.  Being a separate OpenStack"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_c7e35a04","line":96,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:33:18.000000000","message":"I\u0027d like to add that why these criteria have been chosen over others. To me the reason is simple: should people evaporate and the subproject on the brink of collapse, there is the chance that anyone can step in and take over by just doing some git clones. No third-party inaccessible solutions to be dependent on. For this reason, I believe that any project that wants to be part of the group should think twice about including (or keep including) vendor code as Neutron no longer does.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64db8f67f900bf55bc14c3281a59d29bd1090c5a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":""},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"    http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/neutron.html"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":""},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"We list the Neutron repositories, as well as other Neutron affiliated projects"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"here to provide references and note the functionality they provide."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Neutron projects"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_5c4f41bd","line":116,"updated":"2016-02-04 03:26:41.000000000","message":"we should link a patch to the governance repo (in the commit message via Depends-on) to this one or viceversa. Is there one available yet?","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":""},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"    http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/neutron.html"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":""},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"We list the Neutron repositories, as well as other Neutron affiliated projects"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"here to provide references and note the functionality they provide."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Neutron projects"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_e5e192d1","line":116,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_5af645d8","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"linking in the commit message makes sense as a reference","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"443058b8517409e08429a3a4d4a71a06a67a5eca","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":""},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"    http://governance.openstack.org/reference/projects/neutron.html"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":""},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"We list the Neutron repositories, as well as other Neutron affiliated projects"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"here to provide references and note the functionality they provide."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Neutron projects"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_5af645d8","line":116,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_5c4f41bd","updated":"2016-02-04 14:26:44.000000000","message":"https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275936/\n\nThe governance patch is dependent on this one merging.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":16983,"name":"Eshed Gal-Or","email":"eshed.galor@huawei.com","username":"eshedg"},"change_message_id":"5eb32dcb36b9289e8cc45ba29a97749b7381cf35","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":125,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":126,"context_line":"| Name                          |    Functionality      |"},{"line_number":127,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":128,"context_line":"| networking-l2gw_              | l2                    |"},{"line_number":129,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":130,"context_line":"| networking-ovn_               | core                  |"},{"line_number":131,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_81c6a447","line":128,"updated":"2016-02-04 10:16:48.000000000","message":"According to the criteria and other comments here, I think that l2gw as a Neutron sub-project is somewhat problematic, since it is tightly coupled with OVS, while Neutron itself is agnostic to OVS.\nIf external network connectivity is an important feature (and I think it absolutely is), it should be another *aaS API inside Neutron, which l2gw can implement as a standalone project.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":125,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":126,"context_line":"| Name                          |    Functionality      |"},{"line_number":127,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":128,"context_line":"| networking-l2gw_              | l2                    |"},{"line_number":129,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":130,"context_line":"| networking-ovn_               | core                  |"},{"line_number":131,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_65236206","line":128,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_81c6a447","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"It has a driver layer and supports OVS to start, which seems reasonable to me.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":16983,"name":"Eshed Gal-Or","email":"eshed.galor@huawei.com","username":"eshedg"},"change_message_id":"5eb32dcb36b9289e8cc45ba29a97749b7381cf35","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":127,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":128,"context_line":"| networking-l2gw_              | l2                    |"},{"line_number":129,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":130,"context_line":"| networking-ovn_               | core                  |"},{"line_number":131,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":132,"context_line":"| neutron_                      | base,l2,ml2,core,l3   |"},{"line_number":133,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_4a3be1d1","line":130,"updated":"2016-02-04 10:16:48.000000000","message":"According to the criteria and other comments here, I think that OVN as a sub-project of Neutron should be re-considered, because of the following reasons:\n1. it relies heavily and tightly-coupled to a single-vendor-driven component (ovsdb)\n2. it creates a tight-coupling with an external open source community that is not part of OpenStack governance (ovs)\n3. it is hardly overlapping with Neutron core\n4. it is, in effect, completely maintained by a single vendor","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":127,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":128,"context_line":"| networking-l2gw_              | l2                    |"},{"line_number":129,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":130,"context_line":"| networking-ovn_               | core                  |"},{"line_number":131,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":132,"context_line":"| neutron_                      | base,l2,ml2,core,l3   |"},{"line_number":133,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_60f59081","line":130,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_4a3be1d1","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"These points are just FUD.\n\n1) OVN currently relies on OVSDB, yes.  I assume you\u0027re implying this point about OVS more generally, since OVSDB is a part of OVS.  First off, OpenStack already heavily relies on OVS.  Aside from that, I disagree with your \"single-vendor-driven\" claim.  That\u0027s common FUD about OVS, and that does not match my experience as an OVS maintainer.  In the Mitaka cycle, 3 of the top 10 contributors in terms of # of commits are not VMware.  http://stackalytics.com/?project_type\u003dovs-group\u0026metric\u003dcommits\n\n2) As mentioned in #1, this isn\u0027t new.  Further, OpenStack relies on A LOT of external open source projects.  OVS, Libvirt, KVM, qemu, ceph, python, linux, and on and on.  I think this argument is irrelevant.  In fact, I consider it a *benefit* when OpenStack projects can make use of another project.  OpenStack should reuse implementations as much as possible, as the technologies we use are not specific to OpenStack, and making them more reusable is ideal.\n\n3) I mentioned in a comment higher in the document that I think the overlap is a more broad and loosely defined thing than just core teams.  There\u0027s a lot more to project success than core teams.  With that said, the top two reviewers in networking-ovn for the Mitaka cycle are also members of neutron-core.\n\n4) That is false.  I assume you\u0027re referring to OVN itself.  We have commits in OVN from 6 different companies.  The commits from outside VMware are not few and trivial, either.  I am an OVN committer and have done a *significant* amount of the work.  It is very much a proper open and collaborative project.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":16983,"name":"Eshed Gal-Or","email":"eshed.galor@huawei.com","username":"eshedg"},"change_message_id":"0003db2ff061d4dfd56cbcf992d2ffa3e842d3d4","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":127,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":128,"context_line":"| networking-l2gw_              | l2                    |"},{"line_number":129,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":130,"context_line":"| networking-ovn_               | core                  |"},{"line_number":131,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":132,"context_line":"| neutron_                      | base,l2,ml2,core,l3   |"},{"line_number":133,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_b0c0b5e1","line":130,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_60f59081","updated":"2016-02-04 16:26:26.000000000","message":"wait a minute, don\u0027t get me wrong, OVN is a great project, definitely in the right direction, nothing in my comment was in any way a criticism of OVN, and I have total appreciation to the community that\u0027s doing work contributing there.\nhaving said that, I don\u0027t see how it\u0027s any different from the other implementations (odl, df, mido, etc.), how it meets some criteria others don\u0027t, and should therefore be *in* or *out* same as the others - regardless of the incidental overlap of some team members.","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":13070,"name":"Eran Gampel","email":"eran@gampel.net","username":"Gampel"},"change_message_id":"caf287e025262ed79638059c927684c671468bc9","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":156,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":157,"context_line":"| Name                          |    Functionality      |"},{"line_number":158,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":159,"context_line":"| dragonflow_                   |           l3          |"},{"line_number":160,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":161,"context_line":"| kuryr_                        |         docker        |"},{"line_number":162,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_3bc4c15d","line":159,"range":{"start_line":159,"start_character":44,"end_line":159,"end_character":46},"updated":"2016-02-04 09:18:07.000000000","message":"Dragonflow is a core Plugin supporting L2,L3,SG,DHCP and is in the process of migrating to ML2 and implementing INTENT","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4cb1c61bb8a5fe5a6973bf248b5ece9942c6d99b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":156,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":157,"context_line":"| Name                          |    Functionality      |"},{"line_number":158,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":159,"context_line":"| dragonflow_                   |           l3          |"},{"line_number":160,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":161,"context_line":"| kuryr_                        |         docker        |"},{"line_number":162,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":5,"id":"5a5ae5dd_c02c8404","line":159,"range":{"start_line":159,"start_character":44,"end_line":159,"end_character":46},"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_3bc4c15d","updated":"2016-02-04 15:04:44.000000000","message":"OK, we can change this to say \"core\", though unrelated to this patch, really","commit_id":"bbe3c1a953ebf325af3824f55bc60dabf84b1aff"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"c888df3b077d9b31ab8b07d186babff8f0548b8a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  If the teams are mostly separate, that\u0027s"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  a good sign that the project should be separate.  This intentionally not"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the evaluation by the"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  Neutron PTL and team."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_f3694ebf","line":89,"updated":"2016-02-04 19:31:42.000000000","message":"I would add also for a prolonged amount of time (two or more cycles?).","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"d44fac889cbb17f68b4f1578e768872037913c69","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  If the teams are mostly separate, that\u0027s"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  a good sign that the project should be separate.  This intentionally not"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the evaluation by the"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  Neutron PTL and team."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_8b353af8","line":89,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_5313820d","updated":"2016-02-04 21:56:33.000000000","message":"sure, the reason why I brought it up was to be clear about the fact that requests for inclusion right of the bat (for projects that are just being formed out out nowhere) should be rejected.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"9420c4de4fdf181b6f72af845fc4b6e082fda034","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  If the teams are mostly separate, that\u0027s"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  a good sign that the project should be separate.  This intentionally not"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the evaluation by the"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  Neutron PTL and team."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_5313820d","line":89,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_f3694ebf","updated":"2016-02-04 19:39:12.000000000","message":"Sure, in the interest of remaining a guideline and not a strict set of rules, I\u0027d like to stay with \"prolonged period of time\" and not a specific timeline.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1131,"name":"Brian Haley","email":"haleyb.dev@gmail.com","username":"brian-haley"},"change_message_id":"51d258d049fbb9e82b208d19491a5cbc7556b36d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  If the teams are mostly separate, that\u0027s"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  a good sign that the project should be separate.  This intentionally not"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the evaluation by the"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  Neutron PTL and team."},{"line_number":93,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_1f3c312e","line":90,"updated":"2016-02-04 18:22:35.000000000","message":"nit: is intentionally","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"c888df3b077d9b31ab8b07d186babff8f0548b8a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":97,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  not meet the"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  `four opens \u003chttp://governance.openstack.org/reference/opens.html\u003e`_),"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project."},{"line_number":101,"context_line":""},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"The end result should be a set of OpenStack projects that more accurately"},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"reflects the teams of people working on things.  Being a separate OpenStack"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_1393caa4","line":100,"updated":"2016-02-04 19:31:42.000000000","message":"If that\u0027s okay with you I wouldn\u0027t want to lose my comment on PS5 about the why we chose these criteria. It may be obvious to some, but not to others. The team overlap is also important so that should a subproject lose momentum it\u0027s not gonna be hit by the proverbial bus effect.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"9420c4de4fdf181b6f72af845fc4b6e082fda034","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":97,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  not meet the"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  `four opens \u003chttp://governance.openstack.org/reference/opens.html\u003e`_),"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project."},{"line_number":101,"context_line":""},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"The end result should be a set of OpenStack projects that more accurately"},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"reflects the teams of people working on things.  Being a separate OpenStack"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_13cbca73","line":100,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_1393caa4","updated":"2016-02-04 19:39:12.000000000","message":"Sorry about that.  It\u0027s easy to lose comments.  I\u0027ll incorporate that here.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"8f299fe6f43367010d47e299f5061b677ebf10aa","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":147,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":148,"context_line":"| neutron-vpnaas_               | vpn                   |"},{"line_number":149,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":150,"context_line":"| octavia_                      | lb                    |"},{"line_number":151,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":152,"context_line":"| python-neutronclient_         | client                |"},{"line_number":153,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_c2dc7e14","line":150,"range":{"start_line":150,"start_character":2,"end_line":150,"end_character":10},"updated":"2016-02-04 18:37:05.000000000","message":"As Russel noted, I feel pretty strongly that neutron-lbaas and octavia (and -dashboard) should be treated as a unit right now. If the consensus is that it makes sense to split them out now, so be it, but I don\u0027t really think it makes sense to remove one and not the other, or vice-versa.\n\nAlso note that if we decide its time to move *aas out, then vpn and fw should go as well.\n\nThey will *still* need to release in lockstep with neutron until the team can undo that dependency, which is not slated work for Mitaka, which is focusing on stabilizing and features for the reference backend (octavia.) I asked for a cycle or two to get that planned sanely and without friction, but if it needs to go big tent now and still release in lockstep with neutron-server, that can also be made to work.\n\nI\u0027m totally flexible as to how the group wants to structure that, with the exception that it makes no sense to piecemeal the lbaas repos.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":261,"name":"Salvatore Orlando","email":"salv.orlando@gmail.com","username":"salvatore-orlando"},"change_message_id":"daee191c2f3d8df41a64ba81716ef336aeb56d86","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":164,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":165,"context_line":"| dragonflow_                   |         core          |"},{"line_number":166,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":167,"context_line":"| kuryr_                        |         docker        |"},{"line_number":168,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":169,"context_line":"| networking-ale-omniswitch_    |          ml2          |"},{"line_number":170,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_99d4b947","line":167,"updated":"2016-02-04 20:22:51.000000000","message":"This is not necessarily docker.\nI regard it as a neutron client aimed at gluing it with container management platforms.\n\nThe question is whether this might be regarded on a par with the \"official\" neutron-client... probably not, but not 100% sure.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"21f133455bd45c5141fe7bd15763c7b4b1a257f8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":164,"context_line":"+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d+"},{"line_number":165,"context_line":"| dragonflow_                   |         core          |"},{"line_number":166,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":167,"context_line":"| kuryr_                        |         docker        |"},{"line_number":168,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":169,"context_line":"| networking-ale-omniswitch_    |          ml2          |"},{"line_number":170,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_94a560b6","line":167,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_99d4b947","updated":"2016-02-04 20:52:01.000000000","message":"This is also outside the scope of this patch.\n\nBut I agree, it\u0027s container networking, and not docker.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1131,"name":"Brian Haley","email":"haleyb.dev@gmail.com","username":"brian-haley"},"change_message_id":"51d258d049fbb9e82b208d19491a5cbc7556b36d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":233,"context_line":"split them out, as well."},{"line_number":234,"context_line":""},{"line_number":235,"context_line":"There is interest in making neutron-lbaas separate in the near future.  Octavia"},{"line_number":236,"context_line":"is the open source reference implementation for neutron-lbaas, so it\u0027s easiest"},{"line_number":237,"context_line":"include both of them until that split is ready."},{"line_number":238,"context_line":""},{"line_number":239,"context_line":"**Q: Why is networking-ovs-dpdk separate?**"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_1f8671b9","line":236,"updated":"2016-02-04 18:22:35.000000000","message":"nit: easiest to","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":261,"name":"Salvatore Orlando","email":"salv.orlando@gmail.com","username":"salvatore-orlando"},"change_message_id":"daee191c2f3d8df41a64ba81716ef336aeb56d86","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":255,"context_line":"years.  The OVS project has been developing a new integration point for OVS"},{"line_number":256,"context_line":"intended for OpenStack and other systems that want virtual networking with OVS."},{"line_number":257,"context_line":"networking-ovn is an experimental driver in Neutron for this new OVS integration"},{"line_number":258,"context_line":"point."},{"line_number":259,"context_line":""},{"line_number":260,"context_line":"Both OVN itself and networking-ovn have significant contribution from multiple"},{"line_number":261,"context_line":"companies.  There is also sufficient overlap in contributors to these efforts"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_d95eb111","line":258,"updated":"2016-02-04 20:22:51.000000000","message":"Is it fair to state that OVN is regarded by the Neutron developer community as a valid alternative to the reference implementation (at least a potentially valid), and therefore its integration with neutron should be considered part of the project itself?","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"df51833114b833c9481a9812475c617c8add20c2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":255,"context_line":"years.  The OVS project has been developing a new integration point for OVS"},{"line_number":256,"context_line":"intended for OpenStack and other systems that want virtual networking with OVS."},{"line_number":257,"context_line":"networking-ovn is an experimental driver in Neutron for this new OVS integration"},{"line_number":258,"context_line":"point."},{"line_number":259,"context_line":""},{"line_number":260,"context_line":"Both OVN itself and networking-ovn have significant contribution from multiple"},{"line_number":261,"context_line":"companies.  There is also sufficient overlap in contributors to these efforts"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_8b93fa4e","line":258,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_d95eb111","updated":"2016-02-04 21:46:48.000000000","message":"That\u0027s my view, yes.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1131,"name":"Brian Haley","email":"haleyb.dev@gmail.com","username":"brian-haley"},"change_message_id":"51d258d049fbb9e82b208d19491a5cbc7556b36d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":262,"context_line":"with Neutron.  For example, Russell Bryant and Kyle Mestery are the top two"},{"line_number":263,"context_line":"reviewers for networking-ovn and are also members of neutron\u0027s review team."},{"line_number":264,"context_line":"Matthew Kassawara has been making significant contributions to testing and"},{"line_number":265,"context_line":"documentation, whoc is also a key contributor to Neutron\u0027s documentation (the"},{"line_number":266,"context_line":"OpenStack Networking Guide).  Other contributors contribute in both neutron and"},{"line_number":267,"context_line":"networking-ovn, as well."},{"line_number":268,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_5f486987","line":265,"updated":"2016-02-04 18:22:35.000000000","message":"s/whoc/who","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":261,"name":"Salvatore Orlando","email":"salv.orlando@gmail.com","username":"salvatore-orlando"},"change_message_id":"daee191c2f3d8df41a64ba81716ef336aeb56d86","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":268,"context_line":""},{"line_number":269,"context_line":"**Q: Why is dragonflow separate?**"},{"line_number":270,"context_line":""},{"line_number":271,"context_line":"You can think of Dragonflow in a similar way as Astara.  Astara was created as a"},{"line_number":272,"context_line":"separate project in OpenStack\u0027s governance because it\u0027s more than just a driver."},{"line_number":273,"context_line":"It implements much more of the stack.  Ideally"},{"line_number":274,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_d9479149","line":271,"updated":"2016-02-04 20:22:51.000000000","message":"Totally agree with this statement.\nIf OVN where part of the OpenStack project, OVN would be more suitable as a first-class project. (note: I\u0027m talking about OVN not networking-ovn, which is the neutron integration component)","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1131,"name":"Brian Haley","email":"haleyb.dev@gmail.com","username":"brian-haley"},"change_message_id":"51d258d049fbb9e82b208d19491a5cbc7556b36d","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":270,"context_line":""},{"line_number":271,"context_line":"You can think of Dragonflow in a similar way as Astara.  Astara was created as a"},{"line_number":272,"context_line":"separate project in OpenStack\u0027s governance because it\u0027s more than just a driver."},{"line_number":273,"context_line":"It implements much more of the stack.  Ideally"},{"line_number":274,"context_line":""},{"line_number":275,"context_line":"**Q: Why is (other open source connector) separate?**"},{"line_number":276,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_1fd8b1ee","line":273,"updated":"2016-02-04 18:22:35.000000000","message":"Ideally this sentence would not end with Ideally :)","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"2f9231bd682f6580a6c66660c96b3780645d2631","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":270,"context_line":""},{"line_number":271,"context_line":"You can think of Dragonflow in a similar way as Astara.  Astara was created as a"},{"line_number":272,"context_line":"separate project in OpenStack\u0027s governance because it\u0027s more than just a driver."},{"line_number":273,"context_line":"It implements much more of the stack.  Ideally"},{"line_number":274,"context_line":""},{"line_number":275,"context_line":"**Q: Why is (other open source connector) separate?**"},{"line_number":276,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":6,"id":"5a5ae5dd_889c65c1","line":273,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_1fd8b1ee","updated":"2016-02-04 19:07:56.000000000","message":"ha, I think I stopped mid-thought and forgot to finish this paragraph.","commit_id":"18104e3d4947eef83eb53a351d5d3f586a6aeed5"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"abaa9f629b0b6ecf816b943d9725b1326992e005","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":80,"context_line":"    http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html"},{"line_number":81,"context_line":""},{"line_number":82,"context_line":"More importantly, the scope of the Neutron project must be constrained such that"},{"line_number":83,"context_line":"the Neutron team feels that they can vouch for the sub-project.  At the end of"},{"line_number":84,"context_line":"the day, it\u0027s the decision of the PTL with input from the whole Neutron team."},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"Here is some guidance to help figure out if a project should be within Neutron"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_4358758a","line":83,"range":{"start_line":83,"start_character":37,"end_line":83,"end_character":62},"updated":"2016-02-06 11:35:41.000000000","message":"Vouch for its intent or its deliverables?\n\nIf that\u0027s the former, things like kuryr or dragonflow should be in.\n\nIf that\u0027s the latter, I think a lot of non-proprietary pieces that are currently considered a part of stadium should go away, including e.g. SFC (I highly doubt a lot of people actively working on core neutron repos got their hands dirty with the SFC code, or if they actually did, are happy about it due to the early stage of the project development).\n\nThe idea of the *whole* Neutron team vouching for an independently run piece of code seems like a wrong approach to me. I always thought about the stadium as an informal discussion forum where new projects can incubate, get help from more seasoned neutrinos, as long as they pass four opens test and actually need the help. The judgement part (whether code interacts with exclusively open source components, whether teams overlap enough, whether code quality is high, whether testing is on par) is probably a per-subproject matter. Of course, horizontal team members should also be allowed to suspend their services for subprojects.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":8873,"name":"Assaf Muller","email":"amuller@redhat.com","username":"amuller"},"change_message_id":"32b77e29b61587aba1fdfd73427e6f45997dd531","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":80,"context_line":"    http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html"},{"line_number":81,"context_line":""},{"line_number":82,"context_line":"More importantly, the scope of the Neutron project must be constrained such that"},{"line_number":83,"context_line":"the Neutron team feels that they can vouch for the sub-project.  At the end of"},{"line_number":84,"context_line":"the day, it\u0027s the decision of the PTL with input from the whole Neutron team."},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"Here is some guidance to help figure out if a project should be within Neutron"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"3a57f1b5_c3c12930","line":83,"range":{"start_line":83,"start_character":37,"end_line":83,"end_character":62},"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_433330f6","updated":"2016-02-10 12:42:12.000000000","message":"Isn\u0027t there a logical error with this definition, though?\n\nIf project X has cores A and B, and those cores are also cores in Neutron, then you propose that project X belongs in the stadium. However, not all Neutron cores are responsible for the project, only cores A and B. If that is the case, then by definition, if only cores A and B are responsible for project X, then X is not in the stadium.\n\n\u0027The Neutron team\u0027 is either responsible for a project (In practical terms: CI, infra, testing, release), or it isn\u0027t. If only a very specific subset of people work on project X, and project X is in the stadium, are infra and testing folks responsible for this project or not? If not, then the project is not in the stadium.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":6854,"name":"YAMAMOTO Takashi","email":"yamamoto@midokura.com","username":"yamamoto"},"change_message_id":"565010933d93c8dec0e6119e38cd0cb7f818aa99","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":80,"context_line":"    http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html"},{"line_number":81,"context_line":""},{"line_number":82,"context_line":"More importantly, the scope of the Neutron project must be constrained such that"},{"line_number":83,"context_line":"the Neutron team feels that they can vouch for the sub-project.  At the end of"},{"line_number":84,"context_line":"the day, it\u0027s the decision of the PTL with input from the whole Neutron team."},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"Here is some guidance to help figure out if a project should be within Neutron"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_eb3258a6","line":83,"range":{"start_line":83,"start_character":37,"end_line":83,"end_character":62},"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_4358758a","updated":"2016-02-08 05:07:35.000000000","message":"+1","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"1387b4ba724fea0d28645e9af7884e0226a15245","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":80,"context_line":"    http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html"},{"line_number":81,"context_line":""},{"line_number":82,"context_line":"More importantly, the scope of the Neutron project must be constrained such that"},{"line_number":83,"context_line":"the Neutron team feels that they can vouch for the sub-project.  At the end of"},{"line_number":84,"context_line":"the day, it\u0027s the decision of the PTL with input from the whole Neutron team."},{"line_number":85,"context_line":"Here is some guidance to help figure out if a project should be within Neutron"},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_433330f6","line":83,"range":{"start_line":83,"start_character":37,"end_line":83,"end_character":62},"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_4358758a","updated":"2016-02-08 18:21:35.000000000","message":"To be clear, I do *not* suggest that the *whole* neutron team needs to vouch for everything.  That doesn\u0027t make sense.  It\u0027s a much more loose definition.\n\nThis is part of where the team overlap comes in.  There\u0027s a loosely defined group of people called \"the neutron team\".  If there\u0027s sufficient overlap between that group and the one working on some neutron add-on/plugin/api/thing, then the trust you have with those neutron team members should carry over to the add-on/plugin/api/thing, as well.\n\nAn incubator is a nice way to think of it for some cases.  Although, I wouldn\u0027t necessarily suggest that *every* mature thing should be separate.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":7787,"name":"Kevin Benton","email":"kevin@benton.pub","username":"blak111"},"change_message_id":"b5c7b2913df513cc77e68374ba45ec7cd6024473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_38d495bb","line":89,"updated":"2016-02-05 01:58:23.000000000","message":"What are the overlap requirements? If a small sub-project has two Neutron cores, is that enough? If so, do you really think it\u0027s safe to say that they entire neutron team then vouches for a sub-project?","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":8873,"name":"Assaf Muller","email":"amuller@redhat.com","username":"amuller"},"change_message_id":"32b77e29b61587aba1fdfd73427e6f45997dd531","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"3a57f1b5_43a45956","line":89,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_a8696c8d","updated":"2016-02-10 12:42:12.000000000","message":"\u003e I honestly suggest we drop the whole overlap guideline. If anything, it spreads politics and power struggle in the community.\n\n+1\n\nPut the open source implementations in the same bucket. In, or out. I understand Armando\u0027s desire to lure in projects by \u0027making them\u0027 work on Neutron as a platform, but I think the cost outweighs the benefit. If someone understands why it\u0027s in his best interest to work on Neutron as a platform and not only his specific plugin, he will do so. Heavy handed top-down governance docs will not change this.\n\nIf you start picking and choosing between the different open source plugins, you\u0027ll get more needless bickering, like we\u0027ve already seen on the ML. This is a divisive move to our community, and it will do more harm than good.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"65e341c88a4754801f8c0e9855c087ec6c76f7e7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"3a57f1b5_a8696c8d","line":89,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_de17e552","updated":"2016-02-10 12:22:47.000000000","message":"But it\u0027s not only about principles you apply, but about deliverables you release, and how they fit the common Neutron goals. As I see it, f.e. no particular plugin should be blessed as somehow special for reasons that are anecdotal, like \u0027significant\u0027 team overlap. The only plugin that has a real non-political reason to stay under the tent is ml2 + reference architecture drivers, for the sake of end-to-end gating.\n\nI honestly suggest we drop the whole overlap guideline. If anything, it spreads politics and power struggle in the community.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":8873,"name":"Assaf Muller","email":"amuller@redhat.com","username":"amuller"},"change_message_id":"0326f6e6c670f86b9dd092df9091478a2e7e5574","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_b765e2b5","line":89,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_38d495bb","updated":"2016-02-05 11:45:33.000000000","message":"+1","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":6854,"name":"YAMAMOTO Takashi","email":"yamamoto@midokura.com","username":"yamamoto"},"change_message_id":"565010933d93c8dec0e6119e38cd0cb7f818aa99","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_cb8bdc1d","line":89,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_38d495bb","updated":"2016-02-08 05:07:35.000000000","message":"+1","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"1387b4ba724fea0d28645e9af7884e0226a15245","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_83e0482a","line":89,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_38d495bb","updated":"2016-02-08 18:21:35.000000000","message":"I commented above that it\u0027s not necessarily about the whole neutron team having to vouch for something.  I don\u0027t think that makes sense.  It\u0027s a loose definition.\n\nAs a concrete example, if you trust and consider Kyle and myself a part of the \"Neutron team\", then you can roughly vouch for networking-ovn not being crazy based on that team overlap (as Kyle and I do the most reviews on that repo).","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"32b422163a5daa3bd22909f9bd27fe7dd4edb5da","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_95c0592c","line":89,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_83e0482a","updated":"2016-02-09 09:49:08.000000000","message":"I find the difference between a project where we have Kyle only as a core (ODL) and where we have two cores (Kyle and Russell) to be insignificant to distinguish subprojects that are entitled for stadium, and those that are not.\n\n[To make it clear, I don\u0027t mean that e.g. Russell\u0027s or Kyle\u0027s contribution into the team is itself insignificant; I only mean that 1 vs 2 cores seems like a very vague criterion for clear judgement.\n\nLet\u0027s say tomorrow I start contributing to ODL plugin and get into its core team. Will the subproject automatically get back into stadium? My reply is: no, because if Neutron has specific purpose (talking about networking program goals), then we should judge projects on code merit (intent, quality of deliverables, collaboration with the project core), not on particular core team setup at specific points in time.]","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"50c7caaeaeae10cd75a877e6670116fa2e63d6b3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"3a57f1b5_de17e552","line":89,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_95c0592c","updated":"2016-02-09 19:20:54.000000000","message":"Initially I was taking the same position, but reality is, should we go down the path you suggest, it becomes a full job in itself to track these types of merits. we\u0027d become a bureaucratic machine with the bureaucratic machine, and I think it\u0027s not a healthy thing to do, especially when most of us like to be very technically involved (vs politically involved).\n\nThe team overlap criteria leverages the web of trust you built over time to ensure that the principles you abide by are followed elsewhere.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":1653,"name":"garyk","email":"gkotton@vmware.com","username":"garyk"},"change_message_id":"6a6d77d15c108b24fd31759f447252d77a1d9b4c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":86,"context_line":"or separate in terms of OpenStack governance."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"* The team working on the sub-project should have sufficient overlap with"},{"line_number":89,"context_line":"  the team doing core Neutron work.  The people working on both should have"},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"  been making a sustained contribution to Neutron for a significant period of"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"  time, such as a couple of release cycles.  If the teams are mostly separate,"},{"line_number":92,"context_line":"  that\u0027s a good sign that the project should be separate.  This is"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_04cd79b6","line":89,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_b765e2b5","updated":"2016-02-06 11:59:13.000000000","message":"how will neutron track these external projects to make sure that they are inline?","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"abaa9f629b0b6ecf816b943d9725b1326992e005","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":93,"context_line":"  intentionally not strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"  evaluation by the Neutron PTL and team."},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_a3012807","line":96,"updated":"2016-02-06 11:35:41.000000000","message":"What\u0027s about the opposite direction when a neutron driver calls to the project? (I talk Octavia). I believe the same principle should apply to this case.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"50c7caaeaeae10cd75a877e6670116fa2e63d6b3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":93,"context_line":"  intentionally not strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"  evaluation by the Neutron PTL and team."},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"3a57f1b5_b95b232e","line":96,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_0882fec8","updated":"2016-02-09 19:20:54.000000000","message":"Bear in mind that this is a multi-step process. We don\u0027t have to reach the end in one go. We can iterate over time and refine the boundaries as we go.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"a4ae373cd05f54352001ea22f5bdb19371ee9ddf","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":93,"context_line":"  intentionally not strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"  evaluation by the Neutron PTL and team."},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_0882fec8","line":96,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_35ede58e","updated":"2016-02-09 14:30:49.000000000","message":"got it, thanks.\n\nDoug and the lbaas team seem to strongly prefer to keep octavia coupled with neutron-lbaas for practical reasons, though.  It seems they are close to being ready to split them out, and would rather split them out together.  I don\u0027t feel strongly about it other than not wanting to create more trouble than needed, especially if they\u0027re going to split them soon anyway.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"32b422163a5daa3bd22909f9bd27fe7dd4edb5da","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":93,"context_line":"  intentionally not strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"  evaluation by the Neutron PTL and team."},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_35ede58e","line":96,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_834e0839","updated":"2016-02-09 09:49:08.000000000","message":"For lbaas/octavia setup, neutron-lbaas service plugin talks to octavia thru REST API. Octavia is just on of the supported backend drivers to realize lbaas for Neutron. At the same time, we currently have the project inside the stadium.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"1387b4ba724fea0d28645e9af7884e0226a15245","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":93,"context_line":"  intentionally not strictly defined.  It\u0027s a rough guideline used in the"},{"line_number":94,"context_line":"  evaluation by the Neutron PTL and team."},{"line_number":95,"context_line":"* If the project only interacts with Neutron as a client of Neutron\u0027s REST API,"},{"line_number":96,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project.  python-neutronclient is an exception here."},{"line_number":97,"context_line":"* Neutron stays busy enough just trying to develop reference implementations"},{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_834e0839","line":96,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_a3012807","updated":"2016-02-08 18:21:35.000000000","message":"I\u0027m not sure exactly what you mean..","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":7787,"name":"Kevin Benton","email":"kevin@benton.pub","username":"blak111"},"change_message_id":"b5c7b2913df513cc77e68374ba45ec7cd6024473","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"  not meet the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"  `four opens \u003chttp://governance.openstack.org/reference/opens.html\u003e`_),"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project."},{"line_number":103,"context_line":""},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"This criteria helps ensure the Neutron team feels comfortable looking after all"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_d8dd41e1","line":101,"updated":"2016-02-05 01:58:23.000000000","message":"I\u0027m not sure how the four opens help with the Neutron team being able to vouch for a solution. A completely open project can still refuse to prioritize fixes for Neutron-related stuff. Can you elaborate on why we should bring in such projects?","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":261,"name":"Salvatore Orlando","email":"salv.orlando@gmail.com","username":"salvatore-orlando"},"change_message_id":"3494a66101e3fb72196b6eb235bffb2d43d99e3c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"  not meet the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"  `four opens \u003chttp://governance.openstack.org/reference/opens.html\u003e`_),"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project."},{"line_number":103,"context_line":""},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"This criteria helps ensure the Neutron team feels comfortable looking after all"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_5e0a308b","line":101,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_259bf373","updated":"2016-02-08 16:10:00.000000000","message":"I think this guideline could be rephrased by stating that a would-be sub-project should meet all the criteria to be an openstack big tent project.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"1387b4ba724fea0d28645e9af7884e0226a15245","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"  not meet the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"  `four opens \u003chttp://governance.openstack.org/reference/opens.html\u003e`_),"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project."},{"line_number":103,"context_line":""},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"This criteria helps ensure the Neutron team feels comfortable looking after all"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_e3cb3ca2","line":101,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_5e0a308b","updated":"2016-02-08 18:21:35.000000000","message":"nice summary, Salvatore.  I\u0027ll use that wording in the next revision.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"f491ddbac89fc0733809322843a48732d00f5112","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":98,"context_line":"  of features based on open source components.  If a project exists to provide"},{"line_number":99,"context_line":"  connectivity to a proprietary technology (or an open source project that does"},{"line_number":100,"context_line":"  not meet the"},{"line_number":101,"context_line":"  `four opens \u003chttp://governance.openstack.org/reference/opens.html\u003e`_),"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"  it should be a separate project."},{"line_number":103,"context_line":""},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"This criteria helps ensure the Neutron team feels comfortable looking after all"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_259bf373","line":101,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_d8dd41e1","updated":"2016-02-05 14:12:24.000000000","message":"The point here is that we\u0027d obviously not want to take in a project which does NOT follow the four opens. Not even the TC takes on such projects, we\u0027re just documenting this fact here.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"a5eb58ea6c42cc005fb0943e6e77729101b62ac0","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":114,"context_line":""},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"Repositories grouped together under the same team, such as Neutron, will share"},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"some common services from team members, such as the liasons to horizontal teams"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"like infra or release management."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":120,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_dc7bbf26","line":117,"updated":"2016-02-06 05:29:50.000000000","message":"After having digested the ML thread, and all the comments on this review, I would like to suggest the addition of another criteria: consider for inclusion projects only if they provide a foundational non-replaceable building block to the neutron networking stack.\n\nI realized I wasn\u0027t quite clear on my previous comment.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"65e341c88a4754801f8c0e9855c087ec6c76f7e7","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":114,"context_line":""},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"Repositories grouped together under the same team, such as Neutron, will share"},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"some common services from team members, such as the liasons to horizontal teams"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"like infra or release management."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":120,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"3a57f1b5_28e25c04","line":117,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_7e6a711c","updated":"2016-02-10 12:22:47.000000000","message":"Does it mean no non-reference core plugins should belong under the tent?\n\nAlso, is there a plan to get the suggestion by PTL in the latest version of the patch [or some other patch]?","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"32b422163a5daa3bd22909f9bd27fe7dd4edb5da","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":114,"context_line":""},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"Repositories grouped together under the same team, such as Neutron, will share"},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"some common services from team members, such as the liasons to horizontal teams"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"like infra or release management."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":120,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_55c0a1e0","line":117,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_03669829","updated":"2016-02-09 09:49:08.000000000","message":"Armando, is it discussion around plugins (replacable parts) vs. api extensions (non-replacable extensions for specific use cases)?","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"50c7caaeaeae10cd75a877e6670116fa2e63d6b3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":114,"context_line":""},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"Repositories grouped together under the same team, such as Neutron, will share"},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"some common services from team members, such as the liasons to horizontal teams"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"like infra or release management."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":120,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"3a57f1b5_7e6a711c","line":117,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_55c0a1e0","updated":"2016-02-09 19:20:54.000000000","message":"They both technically result in plugins. Some plugins may expose corollary API\u0027s, some others may simply implement a pre-defined API. If we look on how Neutron is used in the rest of the OpenStack ecosystem (Nova, Heat, Magnum, etc), there\u0027s an underpinning that no project can live without, it\u0027s the stuff down the stack, the kernel, or the core of the onion. Anything else is add-on.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"0d6ee5dca647f844a7099227c5d7fe623b8c0a69","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":114,"context_line":""},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"Repositories grouped together under the same team, such as Neutron, will share"},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"some common services from team members, such as the liasons to horizontal teams"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"like infra or release management."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":120,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_b57611d5","line":117,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_a979dec9","updated":"2016-02-06 17:23:48.000000000","message":"Not entirely true and we can have a discussion on a case by case basis. This patch shouldn\u0027t be about defining the scope of the project, because it\u0027s fair to say that we are still exploring what Neutron is and is not supposed to do.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"fc538490810fcc9208a44e3b8b938361e0600555","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":114,"context_line":""},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"Repositories grouped together under the same team, such as Neutron, will share"},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"some common services from team members, such as the liasons to horizontal teams"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"like infra or release management."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":120,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_03669829","line":117,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_b57611d5","updated":"2016-02-08 18:36:09.000000000","message":"I want to incorporate your feedback and suggestion, Armando, but I could use some help making sure I understand it properly.  Some examples of how it might be applied would help.  Feel free to ping me on IRC when it\u0027s a decent time to talk it over.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":9656,"name":"Ihar Hrachyshka","email":"ihrachys@redhat.com","username":"ihrachys","status":"Red Hat Networking Systems Engineer"},"change_message_id":"abaa9f629b0b6ecf816b943d9725b1326992e005","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":114,"context_line":""},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"Repositories grouped together under the same team, such as Neutron, will share"},{"line_number":116,"context_line":"some common services from team members, such as the liasons to horizontal teams"},{"line_number":117,"context_line":"like infra or release management."},{"line_number":118,"context_line":""},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":120,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":9,"id":"5a5ae5dd_a979dec9","line":117,"in_reply_to":"5a5ae5dd_dc7bbf26","updated":"2016-02-06 11:35:41.000000000","message":"That basically means all networking-* projects go away. I am fine with that. I don\u0027t feel safe to \u0027vouch\u0027 for any of those projects anyway. And not just me.","commit_id":"a42b4cb65577f90ecc03675e674d15332c506476"},{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"f77a870cacb95d3d338957bce76a69cdf1f7d739","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":101,"context_line":"  openstack/neutron, the more likely it makes sense under the Neutron project"},{"line_number":102,"context_line":"  team.  Conversely, something \"higher\" in the stack considered an optional"},{"line_number":103,"context_line":"  advanced service is more likely to make sense as an independent project."},{"line_number":104,"context_line":"* OpenStack project teams are based around both technology and groups of people."},{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_f93bdb9a","line":108,"range":{"start_line":104,"start_character":2,"end_line":108,"end_character":60},"updated":"2016-02-09 19:24:40.000000000","message":"Does it make sense to define what we mean by \"contributor\" ? Namely, someone that is involved *day to day* in core neutron activities, not someone that does 10 reviews a year and attends the summits, e.g. Both are contributors, but I think the genesis of \"taking over\" implies a higher level of involvement.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"be0be3e10bfd103c8ef730b5b76d2ba54fb9d31e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_7a20364a","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_01f3dd74","updated":"2016-02-09 21:46:41.000000000","message":"I tend to agree that we\u0027re off in the weeds if we have to define contributor, but I\u0027ll see what I can do ...","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"72f148fdf719da5f192b4c0362fd0620afc08e07","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_79ffeb34","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_593f8f25","updated":"2016-02-09 19:35:41.000000000","message":"No, I\u0027m not trying to define contributor. But that\u0027s not the point, is it? The point is overlap with active team members? The traditional definition of a contributor is NOT active. So it\u0027s pointless to even say the above.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"4df8862f18deddbb41e119fe5075ec9aac141764","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_79236b06","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_59ca2f51","updated":"2016-02-09 19:32:55.000000000","message":"Russell, you said it much nicer than me, but I\u0027m losing patience for most of this silliness, so it\u0027s not surprising. :)","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"3531afbcb81b2668a55d09773213cd9d9ba33246","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_ab566a04","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_79ffeb34","updated":"2016-02-09 19:41:08.000000000","message":"I think I like what Russell wrote just fine, but I\u0027m seeing your point. So another option is to just completely not even merge this patch I guess.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"6203fb502be8534dfaecea137f48045208dfa404","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_e1fec104","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_8e65bce2","updated":"2016-02-09 20:27:52.000000000","message":"I\u0027m inclined to say this patch should just be dropped.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"84d99d3b28b0524b589ed8f2e102a347764372b6","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_eb36a2b3","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_ab566a04","updated":"2016-02-09 19:45:32.000000000","message":"This is really going to come down to the PTL saying yes or no, which will vary based on who is in office, right? I\u0027m a tad leery getting too concrete, which i guess you weren\u0027t, so maybe being vague is best.  Ha, now i\u0027m against myself.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"ce8484519bbe0282cfd258646c4234d207c2607f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_8e65bce2","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_abdc2a47","updated":"2016-02-09 20:14:37.000000000","message":"A contributor IMO is someone I (either as PTL or as another core developer) trust and have been having a human relationship with before seeing the governance patch; he/she is a regular, who participates in the day to day life of the project and helps with stadium-wide issues and cross-project issues: he/she may be a member of the drivers team, he/she is bug deputy on a regular basis, he/she is a known approver/submitter of Neutron blueprints; he/she is a cross-project liaison, he/she contributes to Neutron docs and overall ensures that the project maintains a high quality standard over time. In a nutshell, he/she is a person who puts the interests of Neutron first, and the interests of the sub-project second.\n\nNow you say that, and it\u0027s clear what project is in and what project is out.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"cd0fae7b4a5825caa86433335773cb141947d0c8","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_59ca2f51","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_b92a432b","updated":"2016-02-09 19:30:25.000000000","message":"I\u0027d say leaving this loosely defined is a feature.  :-)\n\nAny sort of contribution, however small, makes someone a contributor.  The things like \"type of contributor\", frequency, and all of those sorts of things can be taken into account when applying this criteria, but it doesn\u0027t need to be spelled out.  This isn\u0027t supposed to be for drawing a line.  It\u0027s just saying that roughly \"contributor overlap\" is a factor.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"374e165c59dcbcc4f0a6189f26e98d92cf109744","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_d987ff10","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_b92a432b","updated":"2016-02-09 19:29:01.000000000","message":"Kyle, that\u0027s nonsense. A contributor in openstack is *anyone* that\u0027s even looked at openstack sideways, which is clearly not what is meant here.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"8d480fd3228300b269b8a508f35a47aab56350cf","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_593f8f25","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_d987ff10","updated":"2016-02-09 19:32:15.000000000","message":"I don\u0027t think it\u0027s nonsense, but if people want to spend weeks bike shedding on exactly how many commits they have, reviews they do, things they say in recorded meetings, emails they send to the list, times they are mentioned on IRC, tweets they have, likes they have on FB, gerrit queries they make, git commands they execute and such, then I think we\u0027re not only wasting time, but we\u0027ve become an open source nanny state.\n\nI know what a contributor is. You know what a contributor is. If we start nailing down stats required to be a contributor, we\u0027re splitting hairs.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"a1ec5004a6e5a34d7d685bf5528614697d9eb0bc","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_01f3dd74","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_e1fec104","updated":"2016-02-09 20:47:55.000000000","message":"I beg to differ.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"615457c69c971b764cba92f80f38c427e064ab66","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_abdc2a47","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_eb36a2b3","updated":"2016-02-09 19:49:05.000000000","message":"The best part of ALL of this is the next PTL could blow it all away. Best part of spending countless time on things like this!","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":105,"name":"Kyle Mestery","email":"mestery@mestery.com","username":"mestery"},"change_message_id":"c6e4d2fa0e71291d94be3b35b816a855963adbab","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":""},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_b92a432b","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_f93bdb9a","updated":"2016-02-09 19:26:46.000000000","message":"I\u0027m going to be blunt here: If at this point we don\u0027t know what a contributor is, we should all pack this thing up and move on. So no, I don\u0027t think we should spend weeks bike shedding on EXACTLY what contributes a contributor here.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"ce8484519bbe0282cfd258646c4234d207c2607f","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":136,"context_line":"- sfc; traffic steering based on traffic classification"},{"line_number":137,"context_line":"- vpn: a VPN service plugin;"},{"line_number":138,"context_line":""},{"line_number":139,"context_line":"Neutron projects"},{"line_number":140,"context_line":"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"},{"line_number":141,"context_line":""},{"line_number":142,"context_line":"This table shows the list of official Neutron repositories and their"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_cea974e1","line":139,"updated":"2016-02-09 20:14:37.000000000","message":"I thought you were going to trim the list down here too as you did for the others?","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"be0be3e10bfd103c8ef730b5b76d2ba54fb9d31e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":136,"context_line":"- sfc; traffic steering based on traffic classification"},{"line_number":137,"context_line":"- vpn: a VPN service plugin;"},{"line_number":138,"context_line":""},{"line_number":139,"context_line":"Neutron projects"},{"line_number":140,"context_line":"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"},{"line_number":141,"context_line":""},{"line_number":142,"context_line":"This table shows the list of official Neutron repositories and their"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_9af652d6","line":139,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_cea974e1","updated":"2016-02-09 21:46:41.000000000","message":"I skipped it for now.  It\u0027s the most controversial part of this.  I figured we could start with at least establishing that we value overlap in some form.  Let\u0027s argue how to apply it as a separate step.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"57f2ced49ce8318a340ad5e0471804abf9485793","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":232,"context_line":"| vmware-nsx_                   | core                  |"},{"line_number":233,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":234,"context_line":""},{"line_number":235,"context_line":"Project Teams FAQ"},{"line_number":236,"context_line":"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"},{"line_number":237,"context_line":""},{"line_number":238,"context_line":"**Q: Why is kuryr a separate project?**"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_e17801fb","line":235,"updated":"2016-02-09 20:45:50.000000000","message":"We can add more Q\u0026A here...for instance, we can elaborate on the point above as to what contributor means. That would keep the criteria lean and we can digress more here.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"1818a41c6d4b0858ed153b43c1b913a4aa9be1c9","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":232,"context_line":"| vmware-nsx_                   | core                  |"},{"line_number":233,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":234,"context_line":""},{"line_number":235,"context_line":"Project Teams FAQ"},{"line_number":236,"context_line":"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"},{"line_number":237,"context_line":""},{"line_number":238,"context_line":"**Q: Why is kuryr a separate project?**"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_3f306956","line":235,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_7aa3569f","updated":"2016-02-09 23:59:12.000000000","message":"The way you put it, yes, but in reality it is not. Most of the projects that orbit around Neutron are dealt by contributors that only seldomly contribute to the core, and to the issues I touched on before.\n\nFor me this whole exercise is an opportunity to change people\u0027s perceptions of what\u0027s really important and motivate them to rebalance their priorities: the health and wellbeing of the core comes first and everyone should play his/her part for it to thrive, so that by reflection the individual projects can thrive just as well.\n\nBeing part of the stadium (because of the team overlap) therefore is a recognition of the engagement. Now you can decide to put some of those considerations in writing, but I am certainly going to be very conscious of this going forward when selecting/evicting projects from the governance list.","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"66ae44b1ddb2222fefa797703846067feff4a637","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":232,"context_line":"| vmware-nsx_                   | core                  |"},{"line_number":233,"context_line":"+-------------------------------+-----------------------+"},{"line_number":234,"context_line":""},{"line_number":235,"context_line":"Project Teams FAQ"},{"line_number":236,"context_line":"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"},{"line_number":237,"context_line":""},{"line_number":238,"context_line":"**Q: Why is kuryr a separate project?**"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":10,"id":"3a57f1b5_7aa3569f","line":235,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_e17801fb","updated":"2016-02-09 21:50:16.000000000","message":"OK, I added something here, though I feel like it states the obvious","commit_id":"bf53f4869e96f83e3e23f192598885dc8ef00d66"},{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"4fab327db4e1c8ee41449db1731e0ddcbd0e9a2b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":242,"context_line":"**Q: When talking about contributor overlap, what is a contributor?**"},{"line_number":243,"context_line":""},{"line_number":244,"context_line":"A Neutron contributor is someone who spends some portion of their time helping"},{"line_number":245,"context_line":"with all of things needed to run the Neutron project: bug triage, writing and"},{"line_number":246,"context_line":"reviewing blueprints, writing and reviewing code, writing and reviewing"},{"line_number":247,"context_line":"documentation, helping debug issues found by users or CI, and more."},{"line_number":248,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":11,"id":"3a57f1b5_f5bbd773","line":245,"range":{"start_line":245,"start_character":9,"end_line":245,"end_character":18},"updated":"2016-02-09 22:15:02.000000000","message":"nit: of the things","commit_id":"692fa20366906d93685026b66065b63d431b2ebe"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"e5293d5a04e48d9b70eeed15fe4cb727ad063d17","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":242,"context_line":"**Q: When talking about contributor overlap, what is a contributor?**"},{"line_number":243,"context_line":""},{"line_number":244,"context_line":"A Neutron contributor is someone who spends some portion of their time helping"},{"line_number":245,"context_line":"with all of things needed to run the Neutron project: bug triage, writing and"},{"line_number":246,"context_line":"reviewing blueprints, writing and reviewing code, writing and reviewing"},{"line_number":247,"context_line":"documentation, helping debug issues found by users or CI, and more."},{"line_number":248,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":11,"id":"3a57f1b5_d0f7c9f3","line":245,"range":{"start_line":245,"start_character":9,"end_line":245,"end_character":18},"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_f5bbd773","updated":"2016-02-09 22:23:01.000000000","message":"ALL THE THINGS","commit_id":"692fa20366906d93685026b66065b63d431b2ebe"},{"author":{"_account_id":261,"name":"Salvatore Orlando","email":"salv.orlando@gmail.com","username":"salvatore-orlando"},"change_message_id":"a0f3f6c36965d010edb92515493e4088a3d0c22c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  advanced service is more likely to make sense as an independent project."},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  This is subject to change as the Neutron project evolves and continues to"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  explore the boundaries that work best for the project."},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"* OpenStack project teams are based around both technology and groups of people."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_4fdd6213","line":108,"updated":"2016-02-10 11:15:32.000000000","message":"I\u0027d say that a team is made of people only ;)\nHowever the project itself is made by the technology _and_ the people that develop/maintain it.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4660bf3b36b60a8efde0f40c4842e2a49143a870","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":105,"context_line":"  advanced service is more likely to make sense as an independent project."},{"line_number":106,"context_line":"  This is subject to change as the Neutron project evolves and continues to"},{"line_number":107,"context_line":"  explore the boundaries that work best for the project."},{"line_number":108,"context_line":"* OpenStack project teams are based around both technology and groups of people."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_6a751af8","line":108,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_4fdd6213","updated":"2016-02-12 16:18:43.000000000","message":"Sure, the wording here is a little awkward.  I\u0027ll hold off on re-spinning just for cosmetic things, though.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":8124,"name":"cbrandily","email":"zzelle@gmail.com","username":"cbrandily"},"change_message_id":"4258948569ff45b9e2a5269fc7eaaeede34480db","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":108,"context_line":"* OpenStack project teams are based around both technology and groups of people."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":113,"context_line":""},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_26d1c823","line":111,"range":{"start_line":111,"start_character":18,"end_line":111,"end_character":22},"updated":"2016-02-11 23:29:57.000000000","message":"In my opinion and understanding, this sentence gives a wrong message: it looks like sub-projects should be ranked based on their contribution in neutron.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4660bf3b36b60a8efde0f40c4842e2a49143a870","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":108,"context_line":"* OpenStack project teams are based around both technology and groups of people."},{"line_number":109,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":113,"context_line":""},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_aa6f9229","line":111,"range":{"start_line":111,"start_character":18,"end_line":111,"end_character":22},"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_26d1c823","updated":"2016-02-12 16:18:43.000000000","message":"I don\u0027t think it\u0027s about ranking.  It\u0027s just one of the aspects of how things should be organized in OpenStack governance.  The more closely people are working together on a coupled set of things, the more it makes sense for them to be grouped together as a team in governance.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":261,"name":"Salvatore Orlando","email":"salv.orlando@gmail.com","username":"salvatore-orlando"},"change_message_id":"a0f3f6c36965d010edb92515493e4088a3d0c22c","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":109,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":113,"context_line":""},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_cfdb92ec","line":112,"updated":"2016-02-10 11:15:32.000000000","message":"Consider adding a little not on what constitutes \"enough overlap\". I think it is a quantity that is impossible to measure, but since it always involves the Neutron core team, it is up to this team to decide - on a case by case basis - what constitutes enough overlap.\n\nThis kind of implies that the neutron core team reserves the right to decide which projects make sense to be neutron sub-projects, which is the right thing to do in my opinion.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":1561,"name":"Russell Bryant","email":"rbryant@redhat.com","username":"russellb"},"change_message_id":"4660bf3b36b60a8efde0f40c4842e2a49143a870","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":109,"context_line":"  The more overlap there is between contributors to the sub-project and"},{"line_number":110,"context_line":"  contributors to Neutron, the more likely it makes sense to retain it under the"},{"line_number":111,"context_line":"  Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that has no contributor overlap"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"  probably makes sense as a separate OpenStack project team."},{"line_number":113,"context_line":""},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":12,"id":"3a57f1b5_aa7eb216","line":112,"in_reply_to":"3a57f1b5_cfdb92ec","updated":"2016-02-12 16:18:43.000000000","message":"Right, it will always come down to a judgement call of the PTL with input from others.  This is just one of the things to take into consideration.  I believe you\u0027ve captured the intent accurately.","commit_id":"1657ecefb270d367d04820658ed69f973830a4d1"},{"author":{"_account_id":7776,"name":"Paul Carver","email":"pcarver@att.com","username":"pcarver"},"change_message_id":"ccf9c27230b315a50759b0a5110bc88ed513460a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":111,"context_line":"  with the wider approval of the Neutron team, then it makes sense to retain it"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"  under the Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that was developed"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":13,"id":"dae33548_8a743d68","line":114,"range":{"start_line":114,"start_character":58,"end_line":114,"end_character":63},"updated":"2016-02-17 19:51:32.000000000","message":"nit: \"is known\" -\u003e \"is a known\"","commit_id":"7ca8965076511de843cccae10c7ce5a2d238a60c"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"f614c8c34a79f891f97f945e51db4e30804b6a42","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":111,"context_line":"  with the wider approval of the Neutron team, then it makes sense to retain it"},{"line_number":112,"context_line":"  under the Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that was developed"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":13,"id":"dae33548_39aef52d","line":114,"range":{"start_line":114,"start_character":58,"end_line":114,"end_character":63},"in_reply_to":"dae33548_8a743d68","updated":"2016-02-18 17:46:00.000000000","message":"Done","commit_id":"7ca8965076511de843cccae10c7ce5a2d238a60c"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"fb4cb0d47bc6c598f5ce2025a6ff4d3da458021e","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":251,"context_line":"and reviewing blueprints, writing and reviewing code, writing and reviewing"},{"line_number":252,"context_line":"documentation, helping debug issues found by users or CI, and more."},{"line_number":253,"context_line":""},{"line_number":254,"context_line":"**Q: Why chose contributor overlap over technical overlap?**"},{"line_number":255,"context_line":""},{"line_number":256,"context_line":"Technical overlap, or software qualities, are more difficult to pinpoint and"},{"line_number":257,"context_line":"require a more extensive assessment from the PTL and the Neutron team, which"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":13,"id":"dae33548_043826ee","line":254,"updated":"2016-02-17 19:20:52.000000000","message":"chose -\u003e choose","commit_id":"7ca8965076511de843cccae10c7ce5a2d238a60c"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"f614c8c34a79f891f97f945e51db4e30804b6a42","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":251,"context_line":"and reviewing blueprints, writing and reviewing code, writing and reviewing"},{"line_number":252,"context_line":"documentation, helping debug issues found by users or CI, and more."},{"line_number":253,"context_line":""},{"line_number":254,"context_line":"**Q: Why chose contributor overlap over technical overlap?**"},{"line_number":255,"context_line":""},{"line_number":256,"context_line":"Technical overlap, or software qualities, are more difficult to pinpoint and"},{"line_number":257,"context_line":"require a more extensive assessment from the PTL and the Neutron team, which"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":13,"id":"dae33548_79a4fd49","line":254,"in_reply_to":"dae33548_043826ee","updated":"2016-02-18 17:46:00.000000000","message":"Done","commit_id":"7ca8965076511de843cccae10c7ce5a2d238a60c"},{"author":{"_account_id":7776,"name":"Paul Carver","email":"pcarver@att.com","username":"pcarver"},"change_message_id":"ccf9c27230b315a50759b0a5110bc88ed513460a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":255,"context_line":""},{"line_number":256,"context_line":"Technical overlap, or software qualities, are more difficult to pinpoint and"},{"line_number":257,"context_line":"require a more extensive assessment from the PTL and the Neutron team, which"},{"line_number":258,"context_line":"in turns has the danger of translating itself into a nearly full-time"},{"line_number":259,"context_line":"policing/enforcement job. Wrongdoing will always be spotted, regardless of"},{"line_number":260,"context_line":"whichever criteria is applied, and trusting known members of the team to do"},{"line_number":261,"context_line":"the right thing should be an adequate safety net to preserve the sanity of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":13,"id":"dae33548_8afb9dc0","line":258,"range":{"start_line":258,"start_character":3,"end_line":258,"end_character":8},"updated":"2016-02-17 19:51:32.000000000","message":"turns -\u003e turn","commit_id":"7ca8965076511de843cccae10c7ce5a2d238a60c"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"f614c8c34a79f891f97f945e51db4e30804b6a42","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":255,"context_line":""},{"line_number":256,"context_line":"Technical overlap, or software qualities, are more difficult to pinpoint and"},{"line_number":257,"context_line":"require a more extensive assessment from the PTL and the Neutron team, which"},{"line_number":258,"context_line":"in turns has the danger of translating itself into a nearly full-time"},{"line_number":259,"context_line":"policing/enforcement job. Wrongdoing will always be spotted, regardless of"},{"line_number":260,"context_line":"whichever criteria is applied, and trusting known members of the team to do"},{"line_number":261,"context_line":"the right thing should be an adequate safety net to preserve the sanity of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":13,"id":"dae33548_b96845f6","line":258,"range":{"start_line":258,"start_character":3,"end_line":258,"end_character":8},"in_reply_to":"dae33548_8afb9dc0","updated":"2016-02-18 17:46:00.000000000","message":"Done","commit_id":"7ca8965076511de843cccae10c7ce5a2d238a60c"},{"author":{"_account_id":7776,"name":"Paul Carver","email":"pcarver@att.com","username":"pcarver"},"change_message_id":"ccf9c27230b315a50759b0a5110bc88ed513460a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":259,"context_line":"policing/enforcement job. Wrongdoing will always be spotted, regardless of"},{"line_number":260,"context_line":"whichever criteria is applied, and trusting known members of the team to do"},{"line_number":261,"context_line":"the right thing should be an adequate safety net to preserve the sanity of"},{"line_number":262,"context_line":"the Neutron as a whole."},{"line_number":263,"context_line":""},{"line_number":264,"context_line":"**Q: What does a sub-project gain as a part of the Neutron project team?**"},{"line_number":265,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":13,"id":"dae33548_2ae091f9","line":262,"updated":"2016-02-17 19:51:32.000000000","message":"\"the Neutron\" should probably be either just \"Neutron\" or \"the Neutron team\" depending on which you meant.","commit_id":"7ca8965076511de843cccae10c7ce5a2d238a60c"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"f614c8c34a79f891f97f945e51db4e30804b6a42","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":259,"context_line":"policing/enforcement job. Wrongdoing will always be spotted, regardless of"},{"line_number":260,"context_line":"whichever criteria is applied, and trusting known members of the team to do"},{"line_number":261,"context_line":"the right thing should be an adequate safety net to preserve the sanity of"},{"line_number":262,"context_line":"the Neutron as a whole."},{"line_number":263,"context_line":""},{"line_number":264,"context_line":"**Q: What does a sub-project gain as a part of the Neutron project team?**"},{"line_number":265,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":13,"id":"dae33548_196cd106","line":262,"in_reply_to":"dae33548_2ae091f9","updated":"2016-02-18 17:46:00.000000000","message":"Done","commit_id":"7ca8965076511de843cccae10c7ce5a2d238a60c"},{"author":{"_account_id":1653,"name":"garyk","email":"gkotton@vmware.com","username":"garyk"},"change_message_id":"6dedc2b529d5f83ca89446f8caeb1aa9e9cab3f3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":112,"context_line":"  under the Neutron project team.  Conversely, a project that was developed"},{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_4c9f39b4","line":115,"updated":"2016-02-22 14:54:22.000000000","message":"what exactly does a neutron contributor mean? is that someone who reviews? commits? comments on mailing lists? tests?","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":12021,"name":"Thomas Morin","email":"tmmorin.orange@gmail.com","username":"tmorin"},"change_message_id":"8ec4072cda78757390d2a6548c7ac5d0f5b747af","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_6acec884","line":116,"updated":"2016-02-19 11:24:04.000000000","message":"I\u0027d tend to consider that the first technical criteria will be more practical than this fourth one, which may leave a lot of room for subjective interpretation and which may not be stable in time.\n\nLet\u0027s assume networking-foo becomes a Neutron stadium project at a point where a subset of the members of the Neutron team is active in it.\n\nIf that later on, the Neutron member people stop being active in Neutron outside of networking-foo:  does networking-foo remain in the stadium ?\n\nOr, if at some point, the initial Neutron members contributing to networking-foo stop being active in networking-foo: does networking-foo remain in the stadium ?","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64b3695f1be4cbe99fde7bc7a582ca79057b90ff","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_97e86f7e","line":116,"in_reply_to":"bae84128_43c75112","updated":"2016-02-19 22:36:45.000000000","message":"If people trust with my judgement, then perhaps we can get past this. If not, the PTL is elected democratically :)","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64b3695f1be4cbe99fde7bc7a582ca79057b90ff","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_f7bbbb0c","line":116,"in_reply_to":"bae84128_6acec884","updated":"2016-02-19 22:36:45.000000000","message":"I hope you make this comment after having read the Q\u0026A question, otherwise I am gonna have to go back and make sure we\u0027re crystal clear: technical assessment is hard; it requires intimate knowledge of the project under scrutiny, it is difficult to agree on and imposes a policing burden that no-one is prepared to take as busy as we are. People overlap is the next best thing, assumed that we trust the technical judgment of the people we work with, having established a longstanding relationship with them.\n\nSure, people can move on, if the project hasn\u0027t reached critical mass and it rots, it\u0027s fair to remove unless someone else is prepared to step in and keep it alive and well. It\u0027s just the nature of the proverbial bus effect.","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":7776,"name":"Paul Carver","email":"pcarver@att.com","username":"pcarver"},"change_message_id":"3da20b9c6c296eeaa0d41926b147a739580d0221","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_9bf9dc50","line":116,"in_reply_to":"bae84128_6acec884","updated":"2016-02-19 12:27:28.000000000","message":"I\u0027m hoping that projects that extend the scope of OpenStack networking capabilities in a vendor neutral way are the way that \"core\" expands. If what is considered \"core\" never expands then presumably at some point it will be \"done\" and not need a team of people working on it other than trivial maintenance. On the other hand, if projects that add new swaths of functionality to Neutron start out as networking-foo with some contributor overlap with \"core\" but gain wide usage as expected standard parts of the OpenStack networking capabilities then Neutron as a whole grows and it\u0027s to be expected that individual contributors will need to specialize in areas. These areas that started out as separate repositories under sub-projects should remain separate repositories for simplicity of managing the code, but years of cooperation should matter more than counting number of commits in one Git repo vs another.","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":10980,"name":"Doug Wiegley","email":"dougwig@parkside.io","username":"dougw"},"change_message_id":"f7b924bd77dfc121ed0924f01682b20609a9a701","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_43c75112","line":116,"in_reply_to":"bae84128_71185e85","updated":"2016-02-19 20:41:15.000000000","message":"The problem with purely objective criteria is that it ignores the social factors around being an active member of a team. Also alluded to here [1].\n\nAnd, ultimately, governance is at the PTL\u0027s discretion. I think the above does a good job of codifying how armax plans to do so at the present time, and no set of objective criteria will ever substitute for that final judgement. Just IMO.\n\n[1] http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/core-reviewers.html#neutron-core-reviewer-membership-expectations","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64b3695f1be4cbe99fde7bc7a582ca79057b90ff","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_f7e29b9e","line":116,"in_reply_to":"bae84128_71185e85","updated":"2016-02-19 22:36:45.000000000","message":"You really think that technical criteria is much more practical and less controversial? This statement clearly shows you have not been involved in Neutron and OpenStack long enough to realize otherwise :P\n\nWhy are people so concerned about the \u0027hopping effect\u0027? To me it\u0027s a non issue. People tend to stick around for a few years. That\u0027s what it takes to understand the full OpenStack machinery. If they don\u0027t most, likely what they produce is not gonna work or rot quickly: that\u0027s OpenStack way of life.\n\nNow this is not about core vs non-core. So please let\u0027s stop raising this point.","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":11907,"name":"cathy","email":"cathy.h.zhang@huawei.com","username":"cathy"},"change_message_id":"4f7572fe093d0166f1c704aaf1329804194bf183","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_71185e85","line":116,"in_reply_to":"bae84128_9bf9dc50","updated":"2016-02-19 20:35:15.000000000","message":"I think Thomas and Paul raised very valid and good points. Technical criteria is much more practical since it is more objective, less controversial, and less likely to introduce negative energy among the OpenStack community than the core member overlapping criteria. The core overlapping could easily change over time due to Neutron core member change, core members’ work load change at different times, and individual core\u0027s work or work priority change.  \nWe need high quality contribution in OpenStack for it to be useful. In order for a subproject to deliver a high standard new technology, it is critical for some contributors who specialize in that technology area to concentrate and drive the design, implementation, and review to completion. Hopping around will result in low quality contribution and/or long delayed project delivery. \nIf we would like Neutron to grow, Neutron core can not be restricted to existing Neutron functionality.","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":748,"name":"Armando Migliaccio","email":"armamig@gmail.com","username":"armando-migliaccio"},"change_message_id":"64b3695f1be4cbe99fde7bc7a582ca79057b90ff","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":113,"context_line":"  without oversight or engagement of any of the Neutron members cannot qualify."},{"line_number":114,"context_line":"  For the sake of this criterion, a member of the team is a known (core or not)"},{"line_number":115,"context_line":"  contributor with a substantial track record of Neutron development."},{"line_number":116,"context_line":""},{"line_number":117,"context_line":""},{"line_number":118,"context_line":"Official Sub-Project List"},{"line_number":119,"context_line":"-------------------------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_77032b74","line":116,"in_reply_to":"bae84128_9bf9dc50","updated":"2016-02-19 22:36:45.000000000","message":"To be perfectly honest, I am not sure what point you\u0027re trying to make, let me see if I understood you correctly by saying this: as a key engineers on this project, I and others have realized that we can\u0027t hold everything super-tightly coupled. Cohesive components must be built and integrated in a loosely coupled fashion. There is no core vs non-core. There\u0027s an underlying framework that stuff can be built on top and assembled to deliver a set of services. What you learn in the process can be fed into the framework to enrich it with pluggable points. For legacy reasons (or because we didn\u0027t anticipate the growth of the project), some stuff is still embedded in the underlying framework. Can that be pulled out? Sure. Is it worth it? Probably not. That said I do not want to pollute this discussion with this argument.","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":1653,"name":"garyk","email":"gkotton@vmware.com","username":"garyk"},"change_message_id":"6dedc2b529d5f83ca89446f8caeb1aa9e9cab3f3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":249,"context_line":"A Neutron contributor is someone who spends some portion of their time helping"},{"line_number":250,"context_line":"with all of the things needed to run the Neutron project: bug triage, writing"},{"line_number":251,"context_line":"and reviewing blueprints, writing and reviewing code, writing and reviewing"},{"line_number":252,"context_line":"documentation, helping debug issues found by users or CI, and more."},{"line_number":253,"context_line":""},{"line_number":254,"context_line":"**Q: Why choose contributor overlap over technical overlap?**"},{"line_number":255,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_ac7d2570","line":252,"updated":"2016-02-22 14:54:22.000000000","message":"how do you track this and see who has met the criteria?","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"},{"author":{"_account_id":1653,"name":"garyk","email":"gkotton@vmware.com","username":"garyk"},"change_message_id":"6dedc2b529d5f83ca89446f8caeb1aa9e9cab3f3","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":259,"context_line":"policing/enforcement job. Wrongdoing will always be spotted, regardless of"},{"line_number":260,"context_line":"whichever criteria is applied, and trusting known members of the team to do"},{"line_number":261,"context_line":"the right thing should be an adequate safety net to preserve the sanity of"},{"line_number":262,"context_line":"Neutron as a whole."},{"line_number":263,"context_line":""},{"line_number":264,"context_line":"**Q: What does a sub-project gain as a part of the Neutron project team?**"},{"line_number":265,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":14,"id":"bae84128_ccf509cc","line":262,"updated":"2016-02-22 14:54:22.000000000","message":"What does this mean? The amount of process added to Neutron has certainly affected the \u0027sanity\u0027 of those working on the project :).","commit_id":"987d0dbc445e7cba2553f7aded21a9f3398e1ea2"}]}