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Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-11-12 22:18:44.000000000","message":"Patch Set 5:\n\nHello\n\nI am following a bit the activity around Nova. \nI just discovered this WIP, and it reminds me things I am already doing for an extensible (research-oriented) VM scheduler I propose.\nYou can play with it online for the fun: http://btrplace.org.\n\nWe already think about different ways to declare and to integrate constraints inside a VM scheduler. So I allowing myself to give you some coarse-grain notes. Feel free to use/leave or discuss them.\n\nThe stateless field is something that is very important for the VM Scheduler. Typically because it offers a cheap alternative to live-migration: if the VM is stateless, boot a copy and once up, destroy the old one. You can find more notes about this feature here: https://github.com/btrplace/scheduler/wiki/Migration-or-Reinstantiation\n\n\"near\" and \"not near\" refer to (anti-)affinity constraints I guess. Usually we differentiate affinity between VMs and between a VM and a node. Both are useful. From what I observed, the notion of affinity can be refined with a notion of scope: different nodes vs. different racks for example. Both granularity are meaningful in practice to enforce different level of fault tolerance to hardware failure.\n\nThe VM-node affinity can be wrap using syntactic sugar and node labeling for being concise. (\"inside GPU-nodes\" for example)\n\nAbout the expressivity. By the end, constraints usually manipulate elements or set of elements. Having the possibility to label everything is great. Just for the example, we ship a DSL with BtrPlace to state constraints (see https://github.com/btrplace/scheduler/tree/master/btrpsl). \n\nFinally, user expectations, and cloud offering evolve over the time. In 2009, VMWare proposed VM-VM affinity. In 2011, EC2 proposed dedicated instances (my VMs don\u0027t share a server that host another client VMs). Later VMWare proposed VM-Node affinity then the possibility to cap the nodes capacity in 2012, ...\nSo, for a long term approach, I recommend you to have some kind of flexibility at the specification level: the constraints name should not be hardcoded so that proposing new constraints would not require to modify the specification format.\n\nFor example, here is what we do inside BtrPlace: https://github.com/btrplace/scheduler/wiki/JSON-Messages#json-format-for-constraints.\nJust a field to get the constraint name. The rest is constraint specific. The VM scheduler will then bind the constraint name and its argument to its implementation, if supported. It is quite portable and not particularly heavyweight.\n\nSorry, if you found this message a bit long, especially coming from a complete stranger. But eh, I like to juggle with VMs :D\n\nRegards\nFabien Hermenier\nhttps://sites.google.com/site/hermenierfabien/home","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":5},{"id":"589848f5740ea4a16416d12bca2b65dc9b25da94","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-11-13 02:07:59.000000000","message":"Patch Set 5:\n\nThanks, I\u0027ll try to incorporate some of that into this.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":5},{"id":"2ae458404ab36a5682840e81c4e27fa4eef97221","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-11-19 22:35:09.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 6.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":6},{"id":"796502a53d71d9f876b7da3c6e07275eca3b499b","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-11-19 22:51:31.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 7.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":7},{"id":"d3f4bbf5a13edf129ffb418eeff49f64fb3195f6","author":{"_account_id":3,"name":"Jenkins","username":"jenkins"},"date":"2015-11-19 23:08:46.000000000","message":"Patch Set 7: Verified+1\n\nBuild succeeded (check pipeline).\n\n- gate-openstack-specs-docs http://docs-draft.openstack.org/49/210549/7/check/gate-openstack-specs-docs/d578d38//doc/build/html/ : SUCCESS in 2m 00s","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":7},{"id":"970219d3649f2fde784a3031d0862f445ca97d63","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-11-19 23:23:48.000000000","message":"Patch Set 8: Commit message was updated","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":8},{"id":"f79bac00f92ce26e10159929fff528374cebc3ad","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-11-19 23:29:09.000000000","message":"Patch Set 8:\n\nLooks like a good bunch of info, I poked the heat people in there IRC channel (#heat) and will see if any of them can offer any thoughts here (since the concepts listed here do start to feel related to heat, but maybe this is just a lack of knowledge of heat and its future direction).","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":8},{"id":"69ea404d5e6f720ee43f3829b45a9f04d67c59b2","author":{"_account_id":3,"name":"Jenkins","username":"jenkins"},"date":"2015-11-19 23:39:13.000000000","message":"Patch Set 8: Verified+1\n\nBuild succeeded (check pipeline).\n\n- gate-openstack-specs-docs http://docs-draft.openstack.org/49/210549/8/check/gate-openstack-specs-docs/c3baa8f//doc/build/html/ : SUCCESS in 1m 54s","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":8},{"id":"0be61f28d1cf29e1839035af4cc69b76897f9d89","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-11-20 07:17:37.000000000","message":"Patch Set 8:\n\nMaybe a point also would be to talk to the storage \u0026 the network project about the properties that would be meaningful to include and maybe some constraints ?","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":8},{"id":"4e5ff3e19ec2b3f14443d8f18bb5f50d5f088d2b","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-11-20 18:33:51.000000000","message":"Patch Set 8:\n\nAgreed, we should do that, we have to find the balance between this spec (which could turn into a heat thing, or some new project...) and what the projects are willing/able to provide as well.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":8},{"id":"eefa6092a054180bb98101373c0f4bc81a44c2e2","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-11-22 15:01:19.000000000","message":"Patch Set 8:\n\nQuick note about the machine description.\nI separated the machine sizing (hardware resource allocation), from its runtime (container, VM, bare-metal). The purpose is to expose implicitly standard constraints related to resource match-making such as \"no co-location between two bare-metal deployments\".\n\nFor being complete, it might also be worthy to consider the machine image. While being not an expert in machine instantiation, I think this might cover the awaited information in terms of IaaS scheduling without requiring an excessive characterization.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":8},{"id":"cc4a2600e82db854e0d2b8511c6a6af932116133","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-11-22 20:17:34.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 9.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"51d9763b05f7175fe26fbdaebda102f6dcad70f5","author":{"_account_id":3,"name":"Jenkins","username":"jenkins"},"date":"2015-11-22 20:27:17.000000000","message":"Patch Set 9: Verified+1\n\nBuild succeeded (check pipeline).\n\n- gate-openstack-specs-docs http://docs-draft.openstack.org/49/210549/9/check/gate-openstack-specs-docs/e4cf158//doc/build/html/ : SUCCESS in 2m 45s","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"482913a0646c666371f967019ec1724d005ec9c4","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-11-25 17:59:36.000000000","message":"Patch Set 9:\n\nThanks Fabien, I\u0027ll look over soon :)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"c45c79bb600b50f0b505fea3874b8e38a7371094","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-12-01 23:49:26.000000000","message":"Patch Set 9:\n\nping :D","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"e6999327f72f7c9fe4a374afe6edaa33006e8fec","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-12-02 19:39:44.000000000","message":"Patch Set 9:\n\npong, sorry haven\u0027t had much chance to look at yet, working on it :)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"0051b28b69a436b1a0c6c808acaed8ad22361875","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-12-02 19:44:38.000000000","message":"Patch Set 9:\n\n(5 comments)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"edcd66a2ce56d8a6ee711590fe89898b6bb7098e","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-12-02 22:10:57.000000000","message":"Patch Set 9:\n\n(3 comments)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"d0d6f7b0bc1bcb759980c4bdf0e8d20016c1608d","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-12-03 00:27:08.000000000","message":"Patch Set 9:\n\n(3 comments)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"b7fad5cac616b5d8e44e989bf7d2cf8bab67ddc0","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-12-03 08:04:25.000000000","message":"Patch Set 9:\n\n(1 comment)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":9},{"id":"4ad10e60f9e8bf910eae1e8765b97c0b9428b75e","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-12-09 13:42:57.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 10.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":10},{"id":"4cd25ae63a05de774128650c51eccaf0626abf0d","author":{"_account_id":3,"name":"Jenkins","username":"jenkins"},"date":"2015-12-09 13:50:28.000000000","message":"Patch Set 10: Verified+1\n\nBuild succeeded (check pipeline).\n\n- gate-openstack-specs-docs http://docs-draft.openstack.org/49/210549/10/check/gate-openstack-specs-docs/79c258b//doc/build/html/ : SUCCESS in 2m 31s","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":10},{"id":"7f926470ab001470391f1fe6987607deb5c83d5f","author":{"_account_id":10263,"name":"Vilobh Meshram","email":"vilobhmm@yahoo-inc.com","username":"vilobhmm"},"date":"2015-12-17 02:01:17.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 11.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"d086614346cb6cc29aee63ad505250a14332353d","author":{"_account_id":3,"name":"Jenkins","username":"jenkins"},"date":"2015-12-17 02:09:13.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11: Verified+1\n\nBuild succeeded (check pipeline).\n\n- gate-openstack-specs-docs http://docs-draft.openstack.org/49/210549/11/check/gate-openstack-specs-docs/7f56279//doc/build/html/ : SUCCESS in 1m 43s","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"daf97caa9630e8b7c55ecf3165c3fea3bfd1ce34","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2015-12-17 10:46:34.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11:\n\n(1 comment)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"5c2d82eccfd7cc5918efaaaf07961c48d8327d2a","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2015-12-17 20:53:13.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11:\n\n(2 comments)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"a5338b2e717c91e137ba1d158f65629afa17b111","author":{"_account_id":11564,"name":"Chris Dent","email":"cdent@anticdent.org","username":"chdent"},"date":"2016-01-13 16:33:22.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11: Code-Review-1\n\n(1 comment)\n\nInteresting. Some comments within.\n\nI agree this is something that is needed but I think it\u0027s important to get more active input from people involved in the nova scheduler, the dead/paused Gantt project, and other schedulers.\n\nOne point that I think needs to be clarified is the differences and overlaps between resource orchestration, selection and consumption. I agree that the yaml in the spec looks a lot like Heat so it would help to know where the boundaries are between scheduling and orchestration. It may be that scheduling is an insufficiently accurate term (in the context of nova people sometimes like to use \"placement\", but that only works when think about putting VMs on compute nodes and that\u0027s just one part of the big picture).","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"35cb04f4ff791dd8ffd90971f75be42365a6626c","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-01-13 17:18:34.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11:\n\n\u003e (1 comment)\n \u003e \n \u003e Interesting. Some comments within.\n \u003e \n \u003e I agree this is something that is needed but I think it\u0027s important\n \u003e to get more active input from people involved in the nova\n \u003e scheduler, the dead/paused Gantt project, and other schedulers.\n \u003e \nIndeed, this is the next step.\nThis point matters a lot to check if our spec allows to express the current features of each project-scheduler and if not, how to extend it properly.\n\n \u003e One point that I think needs to be clarified is the differences and\n \u003e overlaps between resource orchestration, selection and consumption.\n \u003e I agree that the yaml in the spec looks a lot like Heat so it would\n \u003e help to know where the boundaries are between scheduling and\n \u003e orchestration. It may be that scheduling is an insufficiently\n \u003e accurate term (in the context of nova people sometimes like to use\n \u003e \"placement\", but that only works when think about putting VMs on\n \u003e compute nodes and that\u0027s just one part of the big picture).\n\nSo first, about Heat. \nHeat integrates infrastructure and application concerns.\nIn my opinion, the current scheduler shall not manipulate application concerns. Basically because I don\u0027t think these informations  impact the scheduling decisions.\nHowever, I think it shall be possible to provide the current language as the backend behind Heat the same way there will be some bindings behind the spec. If the specification language is correct, then it should be capable to handle every infrastructure concerns expressed by Heat.\n\nFinally, indeed, scheduling is a vague term. In the literature, about the VM, we usually talk about VM placement algorithm. \"scheduling\" is more convenient once we integrate temporal concerns. For the network, various terms exists; virtual network embedding for example. The same about the storage I guess. \"One word to fit them all\" might be a challenge if we want to avoid the classical fillers like \u0027manager\" :D","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"d66bcaf64c604024210ca5f5ed16aa3360118776","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-01-13 20:55:53.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11:\n\nI will enhance the \"Interoperability\" section to provide a more complete picture, including heat.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"3e0466d2e28785917b0312bd78d92ef4ce95c476","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2016-01-14 00:46:43.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11:\n\nThanks much :)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"e2439763c558c3b902a57bca826a1c0c3362eedd","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2016-01-14 00:53:27.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11:\n\n@cdent\n\nJust to understand your idea you are basically saying that all resources will be managed by a \u0027tiny agent\u0027 (or something like that). That tiny agent will receive events on a message bus and either discard that event, put that event back on the message bus, or perform that event. The \u0027tiny agent\u0027 would be doing one of those three based on its own capabilities and/or availabile resources and such... Basically at that point everything is fully decentralized and any kind of structuring of resources seems somewhat impossible (since there is nothing establishing the layout of resources in such a system). That I think is one possible outcome of all of this, but it is also at the other extreme; there has to be some kind of middleground that can achieve some kind of layout and structure, while still enabling such a full-decentralized approach if its really what people want.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"1c360065929aed44873f3d5a67f1663d320d07e6","author":{"_account_id":11564,"name":"Chris Dent","email":"cdent@anticdent.org","username":"chdent"},"date":"2016-01-14 11:08:52.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11: -Code-Review\n\nThe \"tiny agent\" concept is kind of what I\u0027m thinking except for this part:\n\n\u003e Basically at that point everything is fully decentralized and any kind  \nof structuring of resources seems somewhat impossible (since there is nothing   \nestablishing the layout of resources in such a system).\n\nI may be under-representing the complexity but my thinking is that any resource to which stuff is allocated or from which stuff is consumed should itself have the information that allows it to do structuring. For example: a compute node can do affinity or anti-affinity because it knows the ids of instances that are already on it and the networks it is hosting.\n\nDoing this implies a lessening of expressiveness of some of the request constraints but I think that\u0027s a fair price to pay for scale, especially in an environment with lots of available resources.\n\nThings, however, do get more difficult when requesting a suite of resources where if all of them can\u0027t be built then none of them should. For such things I think task coordination with rollback capability is the way to go. This assumes that it is cheap to create but then throw away resource consumption (which it should be, eventually, but probably isn\u0027t, yet).\n\nI\u0027m sure this all sounds very loosey goosey and speculative, and it is, but there\u0027s probably something in there worth teasing out (to find the middle ground, as you say).","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"aea20d2ca01c0a8381d10bb018540853c83f02d0","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2016-01-14 21:29:37.000000000","message":"Patch Set 11:\n\nCool, thanks for the explanation; let\u0027s keeping on thinking and maybe we\u0027ll find the middleground somewhere :)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":11},{"id":"6a6599a1d6d21394f6e7ddd4f0fa11a547c8a870","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2016-01-15 01:34:17.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 12.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":12},{"id":"c5107c35615a9a4d496d3a2acccc4228461f28ce","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2016-01-15 01:37:06.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 13.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":13},{"id":"58b93ebcb9e12301e35ee1cf80f734b58a234a7e","author":{"_account_id":3,"name":"Jenkins","username":"jenkins"},"date":"2016-01-15 01:41:39.000000000","message":"Patch Set 13: Verified+1\n\nBuild succeeded (check pipeline).\n\n- gate-openstack-specs-docs http://docs-draft.openstack.org/49/210549/13/check/gate-openstack-specs-docs/a820032//doc/build/html/ : SUCCESS in 1m 55s","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":13},{"id":"d351ea1349827a5541e7fdf8fda9413101f32547","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-01-18 20:55:09.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 14.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":14},{"id":"1a0d5bf1b387ed3c964ad4b7825857823d0ed6a2","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-01-18 20:58:34.000000000","message":"Uploaded patch set 15.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"8139662d4558250cad1c41c69b979148d4cc4de1","author":{"_account_id":3,"name":"Jenkins","username":"jenkins"},"date":"2016-01-18 21:08:09.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15: Verified+1\n\nBuild succeeded (check pipeline).\n\n- gate-openstack-specs-docs http://docs-draft.openstack.org/49/210549/15/check/gate-openstack-specs-docs/83cd586//doc/build/html/ : SUCCESS in 2m 38s","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"6679228ee2adf7c22c161eb084f6d52ff9c9e0e3","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-02-24 19:22:46.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n\u003e Uploaded patch set 15.\n\nWe never discussed about namespaces and the possible need to interact explicitly with physical elements like the servers.\n\nFor example, to express a constraint stating some VMs must (not) be running on a given set of servers like in VMWare.  To express such a constraint properly, we must be able to write servers names but those names belong to a different namespace by principles so how to make a difference in the language about a job namespace and the server namespace ?\n\nFor example, in BtrPlace, every identifier prefixed by a \u0027@\u0027 indicates a server, and the label is the server fully qualified name.\n\nDoes anyone have an idea ? Is there any existing standard in Openstack to differentiate a server name from a VM name ?","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"fd8d808f7a588a13eae5060a790f9246000e3210","author":{"_account_id":170,"name":"Mike Perez","email":"thingee@gmail.com","username":"thingee"},"date":"2016-03-11 20:03:34.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nHi Josh and Fabien, this spec appears to be stale. Are any of you interested in reviving it or finding someone interested in reviving it. Afterwards we can have it in the cross-project meeting for a wider audience discussion https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting ... otherwise I\u0027ll be proposing to the TC to abandon this spec. Thanks!","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"676b92c66be1e800a22484b385025e779e83a6e7","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-03-14 13:02:32.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n\u003e Hi Josh and Fabien, this spec appears to be stale. Are any of you\n \u003e interested in reviving it or finding someone interested in reviving\n \u003e it. Afterwards we can have it in the cross-project meeting for a\n \u003e wider audience discussion https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting\n \u003e ... otherwise I\u0027ll be proposing to the TC to abandon this spec.\n \u003e Thanks!\n\nHi Mike\n\nOn my side, the changes stalled because of my primary work and personal activities. Now I will have more time.\n\nAside, ihmo, the spec is in a state that deserve a review from the projects that are using the current schedulers now. This is important to be sure it fulfils the current user expectations and their possible future ones.\n\nI will be more present on #openstack-oslo to catch other peoples interested in the proposal and make it progress.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"e804e7951d406feb4c5530b24c09566b482d055f","author":{"_account_id":7166,"name":"Sylvain Bauza","email":"sbauza@redhat.com","username":"sbauza"},"date":"2016-03-14 21:48:54.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15: Code-Review-1\n\nSo, we have a long road for Nova splitting the scheduler but that\u0027s something we have a consensus on the nova team, related also about why we stopped Gantt.\n\nI think that this cross-project spec is throwing under the bus all the consensus we had in Nova about how we should split the scheduler. I\u0027d rather prefer to see this spec\u0027s proposers to go into the nova-scheduler meeting for discussing about the next steps before trying to implement a X-project spec.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"b048272674b62cf6478ce0a486b1120735ed65dc","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-03-14 21:57:01.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n\u003e So, we have a long road for Nova splitting the scheduler but that\u0027s\n \u003e something we have a consensus on the nova team, related also about\n \u003e why we stopped Gantt.\n \u003e \n \u003e I think that this cross-project spec is throwing under the bus all\n \u003e the consensus we had in Nova about how we should split the\n \u003e scheduler. I\u0027d rather prefer to see this spec\u0027s proposers to go\n \u003e into the nova-scheduler meeting for discussing about the next steps\n \u003e before trying to implement a X-project spec.\n\nHi Sylvain\nDo you have some documentation about what you had in mind about Nova splitting ?","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"8acc6d60cc363395280a7ac05aab94cef28f13a5","author":{"_account_id":2750,"name":"Sean Dague","email":"sean@dague.net","username":"sdague"},"date":"2016-03-15 10:31:33.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15: Code-Review-1\n\nI agree with Sylvain. There is a ton of effort happening in nova to decouple our placement engine in a way that it will stand as it\u0027s own project and be able to be fed resources by anyone. It will even have it\u0027s own API endpoint next cycle. \n\nThat is the right place to have a discussion. Attempting to start this whole approach over from scratch just means never getting here. The lack of familiarity with that work by the current spec authors means I don\u0027t think we should really be spending energy here.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"56888dff54d80727aa1efed37e9a2a7e9d175495","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-03-15 11:14:35.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n\u003e I agree with Sylvain. There is a ton of effort happening in nova to\n \u003e decouple our placement engine in a way that it will stand as it\u0027s\n \u003e own project and be able to be fed resources by anyone. It will even\n \u003e have it\u0027s own API endpoint next cycle.\n \u003e \n \u003e That is the right place to have a discussion. Attempting to start\n \u003e this whole approach over from scratch just means never getting\n \u003e here. The lack of familiarity with that work by the current spec\n \u003e authors means I don\u0027t think we should really be spending energy\n \u003e here.\n\nHi Sean\n\nSame remarks than to Sylvain.\nCan we have some documentation about what is happening then at nova side ?\nWhat is the concrete objective when you say you want to decouple your placement engine ?","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"1031bd641974a9db9565d8530e75c5370ce773d2","author":{"_account_id":11564,"name":"Chris Dent","email":"cdent@anticdent.org","username":"chdent"},"date":"2016-03-15 11:59:03.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nI think this highlights an issue that I was hoping cross-project specs and cross-project awareness would help: People within the Nova project are often _far_ more aware of the changes and long term plans that Nova has that will impact other projects and the documents and other evidence of those plans are hard to find if you are not innately familiar with Nova.\n\nI agree that this topic is something that should be worked on in concert with the nova scheduling people, but I think it is incorrect for the onus of discovery and inclusion to be anywhere other than on Nova people.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"2990c8fdbbdf62f2af99e35f5b77fa982c5b7465","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-03-15 12:24:36.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nAt my level, I don\u0027t care that much having these aspects discussed inside oslo or nova.\nJaypipes forwarded me some documentations about a future API to express \"generic\" placement constraints (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183837). In a sense, it covers some of the aspects that are also depicted here.\n\nWe shall never duplicate the work so let\u0027s discuss about what is the role and the limit of everyone. In any case, I am working on VM placement algorithms and placement constraints since about 10 years now and it will be a pleasure to me to discuss with anyone, in any project, that is willing to enhance the placement possibilities inside OpenStack.\n\n \u003e I think this highlights an issue that I was hoping cross-project\n \u003e specs and cross-project awareness would help: People within the\n \u003e Nova project are often _far_ more aware of the changes and long\n \u003e term plans that Nova has that will impact other projects and the\n \u003e documents and other evidence of those plans are hard to find if you\n \u003e are not innately familiar with Nova.\n \u003e \n \u003e I agree that this topic is something that should be worked on in\n \u003e concert with the nova scheduling people, but I think it is\n \u003e incorrect for the onus of discovery and inclusion to be anywhere\n \u003e other than on Nova people.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"ed52b3a99bb935554f3fcc4c7e66a6a4b850273a","author":{"_account_id":11564,"name":"Chris Dent","email":"cdent@anticdent.org","username":"chdent"},"date":"2016-03-15 12:45:31.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nThis may not have been clear:\n\n\u003e I agree that this topic is something that should be worked on in concert with the nova scheduling people, but I think it is incorrect for the onus of discovery and inclusion to be anywhere other than on Nova people.\n\nWhat I mean is that I think Sean, Sylvain and probably people like me should bring the topics _here_ rather than people going into Nova. Because the end state is outside of Nova.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"2f7fdd04619e4e2f261ee120cfec13a1d5d04ebb","author":{"_account_id":2750,"name":"Sean Dague","email":"sean@dague.net","username":"sdague"},"date":"2016-03-15 13:44:38.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nI disagree. As the last 3 cycles of work here (as well as the failed scheduler fork lift) have demonstrated there are a lot of details to get right here. There are a ton of people working on this. Those people are in Nova in the subteam, and they are taking in requirements from other places.\n\nThis is pretty normal Open Source approach. Go to the heart of where people are working on a thing, learn the current state and evolution, and help adjust it there. Deciding to extract the conversation out of that community into another jurisdiction needs *substantial* justification.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"e2bb34956a112871c369d178a7e2d91a25352e16","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2016-03-15 23:44:59.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nI agree with Chris.\n\nI\u0027d very much like to Sylvain and Sean and anyone else to get involved, nova isn\u0027t the only one with a scheduler *problem* (pick a better word here if u want) so the idea behind this spec was to start thinking about where we can go from here. Yes I know there is a \u0027car\u0027 moving in nova (let\u0027s call it the scheduler-fixing-car) but IMHO said \u0027car\u0027 can continue moving as it needs to. Just because that \u0027car\u0027 is moving (hopefully somewhere?) doesn\u0027t mean that another \u0027truck\u0027 can\u0027t come along and also start moving to.\n\nPeople are a distributed system to (and no this spec won\u0027t create a scheduler for people, haha). In the end IMHO we need to all work on multiple specs and solutions concurrently, otherwise we will end up on the same car, unable to drive anywhere (due to lack of space/plans...) to continue that analogy. \n\nSo yes, there are alot of things to get right, yes nova is working through things as well (great! the knowledge and experience gained there is priceless) but no I don\u0027t think we should prohibit another car/truck from also starting on the general area/problem for cross-project issues, just because one car/truck exists that is solving a similar problem in one project (unless nova as a project is going to be the thing that all other projects must request to be scheduled on, is it going to be that?). I am a pretty strong believer that if we don\u0027t work concurrently on this problem I think we as a community will eventually fail, to be honest (because mesos, kubernetes, yarn and other schedulers or systems with [container] schedulers are eating our cake while we complain about where and what).","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"e59540c1c6d90d3a603fe5e5ec24f9a8f34cf111","author":{"_account_id":7166,"name":"Sylvain Bauza","email":"sbauza@redhat.com","username":"sbauza"},"date":"2016-03-16 09:15:28.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nThe main issue I have seen during the previous cross-project meeting is that this spec is not explaining whether the super-scheduler could be possibly returning other destinations but compute nodes.\n\nTBC, are we discussing about a heterogenous scheduler providing resources not for instances, but for example, Cinder volume managers ?\nIf so, that would mean the global scheduler would be also being called by Cinder and deprecating the Cinder scheduler for example.\n\nIf not, if we\u0027re just talking about a scheduler returning destinations for instance placement like Nova does, I definitely think it\u0027s something that the main place for discussing is with the current nova-scheduler team first.\n\nTBH, I\u0027m not super conviced that Swift, Neutron or Cinder want a global scheduler for helping them to place their own resources, that\u0027s something we already discussed with the existing teams during the last summits.\n\nThat doesn\u0027t mean people don\u0027t want affinity with other things than compute nodes (or aggregates or whatever Nova provides). For sure, Neutron folks are wanting to provide to the existing Nova scheduler some resources for helping the instance to be placed close to a Neutron thing. That\u0027s something we agreed, that\u0027s coming in for Newton and probably Ocata, but that\u0027s still a Nova design discussion, not a cross-project thing.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"a67ea80662686e1c690465522527a0a60a0583ea","author":{"_account_id":5441,"name":"Andrew Laski","email":"andrew@lascii.com","username":"alaski"},"date":"2016-03-16 14:21:15.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n(1 comment)\n\nJosh: With regards to your car/truck analogy we have had issues with that in the past when we end up with multiple implementations that are not fully compatible, e.g. nova-network and Neutron. So while I\u0027m fully supportive of unconstrained thinking in this area I think pragmatically the solution needs to grow out of what\u0027s already in place. Otherwise we end up with something that\u0027s nice in theory but no deployers can switch to because it breaks compatibility.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"b71c1875232884d693bfd62e6dcc13a1cad3ac1b","author":{"_account_id":170,"name":"Mike Perez","email":"thingee@gmail.com","username":"thingee"},"date":"2016-03-23 17:58:10.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n\u003e TBH, I\u0027m not super conviced that Swift, Neutron or Cinder want a\n \u003e global scheduler for helping them to place their own resources,\n \u003e that\u0027s something we already discussed with the existing teams\n \u003e during the last summits.\n \u003e \n \u003e That doesn\u0027t mean people don\u0027t want affinity with other things than\n \u003e compute nodes (or aggregates or whatever Nova provides). For sure,\n \u003e Neutron folks are wanting to provide to the existing Nova scheduler\n \u003e some resources for helping the instance to be placed close to a\n \u003e Neutron thing. That\u0027s something we agreed, that\u0027s coming in for\n \u003e Newton and probably Ocata, but that\u0027s still a Nova design\n \u003e discussion, not a cross-project thing.\n\nSylvain, Cinder also has a need for having affinity with block storage backends and hypervisors. Do you remember which previous summit session this was already discussed in that you were mentioning here?","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"f7a42d072dd89a535102af140b8eaae2b54585f5","author":{"_account_id":6926,"name":"Bogdan Dobrelya","email":"bdobreli@redhat.com","username":"bogdando"},"date":"2016-04-14 14:45:51.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15: Code-Review+1\n\nCould you please read http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-April/092330.html ? I see no conflicts to the aforementioned Nova API spec. Those are complementary.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"50c555d3652abb62b6e10e896b5ae553fbe00763","author":{"_account_id":19214,"name":"Vincent Mahe","email":"vincent.mahe@b-com.com","username":"vmahe35"},"date":"2016-06-23 09:59:55.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n(1 comment)","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"3de6a4c44f76dbe7a4f30b30ec83ed1e4362fa31","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-06-23 15:28:48.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n\u003e (1 comment)\n\nInteresting indeed.\nAt first sight, it seems to me their YAML format matches our principle with kind of a weak grammar (not sure about it). But by reading the spec of Tosca, it seems not that simple to me :D\n\nDoes anyone have an expertise on this format ? The purpose would be to see if it is convenient to match some specific use cases ?","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"b88cae258f4a9b4f7bccaa4337bfd5ed6a1daae6","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-07-06 07:34:27.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nHi\nIf needed, one argument favouring a collaboration between schedulers or a meta one is related to the need to provide data-locality.\n\nFor example, in hyper-converged infrastructures, the storage and the compute layers are on the same nodes so it is important to place the VMs close to the place their data are","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"4e8f50e656502decedb061c04f332536142c8e0f","author":{"_account_id":3,"name":"Jenkins","username":"jenkins"},"date":"2016-10-21 21:32:54.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nBuild succeeded (check pipeline).\n\n- gate-openstack-specs-docs-ubuntu-xenial http://docs-draft.openstack.org/49/210549/15/check/gate-openstack-specs-docs-ubuntu-xenial/f7ed184//doc/build/html/ : SUCCESS in 2m 06s","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"2beebda8d322f169f2f266e8b580fe850240e221","author":{"_account_id":6926,"name":"Bogdan Dobrelya","email":"bdobreli@redhat.com","username":"bogdando"},"date":"2016-11-02 09:57:09.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nJust wondering any updates to that spec after Ocata summit?","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"54243115cd23a3e020e8ec56ce455e866925efe9","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2016-11-08 23:15:15.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\nNothing that I\u0027ve seen.\n\nAlso I don\u0027t feel like I have the time to do much here, so if anyone wants to own this, feel free.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"ca201fcb6ea4fa9ba52f58936e64349be25b89d7","author":{"_account_id":19273,"name":"Fabien Hermenier","email":"fabien.hermenier@unice.fr","username":"fhermeni"},"date":"2016-11-10 12:02:43.000000000","message":"Patch Set 15:\n\n\u003e Nothing that I\u0027ve seen.\n \u003e \n \u003e Also I don\u0027t feel like I have the time to do much here, so if\n \u003e anyone wants to own this, feel free.\n\nHi \nIt is sad I cannot get more attraction.\nAn equivalent project initiated by Nova is abandoned as well: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183837/\n\nOn my side, I am moving away temporarily from my academic position to join a company \"making IT infrastructure invisible\". So I will not have a lot of time to contribute.","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"2e8854658ae972519ce237177eb416c4504b27b6","author":{"_account_id":6926,"name":"Bogdan Dobrelya","email":"bdobreli@redhat.com","username":"bogdando"},"date":"2017-01-27 09:20:45.000000000","message":"Removed the following votes:\n\n* Code-Review+1 by Bogdan Dobrelya \u003cbogdando@mail.ru\u003e\n","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15},{"id":"8075c29a3b89e0993e98b0f4ea71f31488df8bfc","author":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua Harlow","email":"jxharlow@godaddy.com","username":"harlowja"},"date":"2018-03-16 21:20:48.000000000","message":"Abandoned","accounts_in_message":[],"_revision_number":15}],"current_revision_number":15,"current_revision":"12a748dea6fac4ca7c61b7938d2a1f3a1df4dc25","revisions":{"730391b9226d50803ea309ce51663e9eae78da4f":{"kind":"REWORK","_number":1,"created":"2015-08-07 17:39:23.000000000","uploader":{"_account_id":1297,"name":"Joshua 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