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{"specs/architecture-working-group.rst":[{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"78933f6d45bd1d6ea2b3bbce8348eed531979cc2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":14,"context_line":"Problem description"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":16,"context_line":""},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"And for each individual project, that is a possibility. Neutron can tell you"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"they designed how their agents and drivers work. Nova can tell you that they"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"designed the way conductors handle communication with API nodes and compute"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"nodes. But when we start talking about how they interact with each other,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"3aaa91ec_60022540","line":17,"range":{"start_line":17,"start_character":0,"end_line":17,"end_character":31},"updated":"2016-06-28 18:22:00.000000000","message":"I would reword this slightly. \nThe above statement could be true in some cases, but usually in regard to a single OpenStack project","commit_id":"5b75bade8fed187fbd0276d887c8934205b43523"},{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"78933f6d45bd1d6ea2b3bbce8348eed531979cc2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":19,"context_line":"designed the way conductors handle communication with API nodes and compute"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"nodes. But when we start talking about how they interact with each other,"},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"it\u0027s clearly just a coincidental mash of de-facto standards and specs that"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"don\u0027t help anyone make decisions when debugging, refactoring, or adding on"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"to the system."},{"line_number":24,"context_line":""},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"Oslo and cross-project initiatives have brought some peace and order to the"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"3aaa91ec_a0936df9","line":22,"range":{"start_line":22,"start_character":23,"end_line":22,"end_character":47},"updated":"2016-06-28 18:22:00.000000000","message":"How about adding operating the system?","commit_id":"5b75bade8fed187fbd0276d887c8934205b43523"},{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"78933f6d45bd1d6ea2b3bbce8348eed531979cc2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":25,"context_line":"Oslo and cross-project initiatives have brought some peace and order to the"},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"implementation and engineering processes, but not to the design process. New"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"ideas still start largely in the project where they are needed most, and often"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":"conflict with similar decisions and ideas in other projects [dlm, taskflow,"},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"tooz, service discovery, state machines, glance tasks, messaging patterns,"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"database patterns, etc. etc.]. Often times this creates a log jam where"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"none of the projects adopt a solution that would align with others. Most"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"3aaa91ec_808e31ce","line":28,"range":{"start_line":28,"start_character":61,"end_line":28,"end_character":64},"updated":"2016-06-28 18:22:00.000000000","message":"For example..","commit_id":"5b75bade8fed187fbd0276d887c8934205b43523"},{"author":{"_account_id":10348,"name":"Maish Saidel-Keesing","email":"maishsk@gmail.com","username":"maishsk"},"change_message_id":"78933f6d45bd1d6ea2b3bbce8348eed531979cc2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":27,"context_line":"ideas still start largely in the project where they are needed most, and often"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":"conflict with similar decisions and ideas in other projects [dlm, taskflow,"},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"tooz, service discovery, state machines, glance tasks, messaging patterns,"},{"line_number":30,"context_line":"database patterns, etc. etc.]. Often times this creates a log jam where"},{"line_number":31,"context_line":"none of the projects adopt a solution that would align with others. Most"},{"line_number":32,"context_line":"of the time when things finally come to a head these things get done in a"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"piecemeal fashion, where it\u0027s half done here, 1/3 over there, 1/4 there,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":1,"id":"3aaa91ec_00b9a179","line":30,"range":{"start_line":30,"start_character":37,"end_line":30,"end_character":42},"updated":"2016-06-28 18:22:00.000000000","message":"times should be removed","commit_id":"5b75bade8fed187fbd0276d887c8934205b43523"},{"author":{"_account_id":9664,"name":"amrith","email":"amrith.kumar@gmail.com","username":"amrith"},"change_message_id":"a28e5f0757e28de4e664d2c88899fa21cf86721b","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"-------"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":""},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Add to the understanding and clarity of OpenStack by documenting its"},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"architecture. Create designs for the improvement of OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"Provide productive spaces for architects to share their designs and gain"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"support across projects to move forward with, coordinate, and implement"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"architectural decisions."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"bacf61ea_e5197823","line":64,"range":{"start_line":64,"start_character":14,"end_line":64,"end_character":73},"updated":"2016-08-01 22:29:59.000000000","message":"I\u0027d love to see how this group proposes to accomplish this, maybe some details in the implementation section would be good.\n\nWhat \u0027teeth\u0027 would this group have, for example?","commit_id":"2e413a7a01d87bf376578071b51741d4cc2e6b2d"},{"author":{"_account_id":6804,"name":"bruce-benjamin","email":"bruce.benjamin@jhuapl.edu","username":"bruce-benjamin"},"change_message_id":"aeed49ccf1d57c2b3e2f22d40c33243258aaabd2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":61,"context_line":"-------"},{"line_number":62,"context_line":""},{"line_number":63,"context_line":"Add to the understanding and clarity of OpenStack by documenting its"},{"line_number":64,"context_line":"architecture. Create designs for the improvement of OpenStack as a whole."},{"line_number":65,"context_line":"Provide productive spaces for architects to share their designs and gain"},{"line_number":66,"context_line":"support across projects to move forward with, coordinate, and implement"},{"line_number":67,"context_line":"architectural decisions."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"9ad45d7e_b7d93486","line":64,"range":{"start_line":64,"start_character":14,"end_line":64,"end_character":73},"in_reply_to":"bacf61ea_e5197823","updated":"2016-08-12 18:23:15.000000000","message":"I appreciate the fact that you are taking initiative to deal with this issue in OpenStack, but I also have a concern about the lack of specifics.  I think you need to start by addressing engineering processes within a focused system-level problem in OpenStack instead of the broad approach that you are taking.","commit_id":"2e413a7a01d87bf376578071b51741d4cc2e6b2d"},{"author":{"_account_id":11819,"name":"Chaoyi Huang","email":"joehuang@huawei.com","username":"joehuang"},"change_message_id":"2924a539bcb00c635cfbf65f0156c0b2668c1b9a","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":85,"context_line":""},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"- Add a tag to the openstack-dev mailing list."},{"line_number":87,"context_line":""},{"line_number":88,"context_line":"- Create initial agenda."},{"line_number":89,"context_line":""},{"line_number":90,"context_line":"Dependencies"},{"line_number":91,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":2,"id":"dada55a8_26ea14ad","line":88,"range":{"start_line":88,"start_character":23,"end_line":88,"end_character":24},"updated":"2016-07-24 23:01:14.000000000","message":"Great to see the architecture WG initiation.\n\nAccording to the comment from Thierry in the Tricircle big-tent application https://review.openstack.org/#/c/338796/: \"From an OpenStack community standpoint, we need more agreement and consensus on how we want to tackle the \"massive scaling\" issues. Tactical solutions like Nova cells only work for one project. I hope that the newly-founded Architecture WG can openly discuss an architecture for scaling OpenStack clouds beyond their current limits, a vision we can all get behind.\n....\nThis is not a technical reflection on the quality of the Tricircle work. I think it\u0027s very interesting, I think the project should continue experimenting with the solution and I definitely want the Architecture WG to consider the Tricircle approach to scaling of using a top cell, API proxies and helpers. If anything, it forces us into having a discussion we should have had a long time ago, and for that I\u0027m grateful that it was proposed.\"\n\nSo kindly please put the scaling OpenStack clouds in the agenda items, and also take these use cases into consideration: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Zkoi4vMOGN713Vv_YO0GP6YLyjLpQ7fRbHlirpq6ZK4/edit?usp\u003dsharing, i.e, let\u0027s discuss how to scale OpenStack clouds into one site or multiple sites.\n\nThank you all in advance.","commit_id":"2e413a7a01d87bf376578071b51741d4cc2e6b2d"},{"author":{"_account_id":2537,"name":"Nikhil Komawar","email":"nik.komawar@gmail.com","username":"nikhil-komawar"},"change_message_id":"a79fbd0156ea4edeccaa53f22a553d1cbdc32423","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":2,"context_line":" Architecture Working Group"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack is a big system. We have debated what it actually is [debate_],"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":"and there are even t-shirts to poke fun at the fact that we don\u0027t have"},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"good answers."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_09c1c42e","line":5,"range":{"start_line":5,"start_character":19,"end_line":5,"end_character":26},"updated":"2016-09-09 14:42:56.000000000","message":"ecosystem (or you could optionally refer to as \u0027community\u0027)","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":2537,"name":"Nikhil Komawar","email":"nik.komawar@gmail.com","username":"nikhil-komawar"},"change_message_id":"a79fbd0156ea4edeccaa53f22a553d1cbdc32423","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":2,"context_line":" Architecture Working Group"},{"line_number":3,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":4,"context_line":""},{"line_number":5,"context_line":"OpenStack is a big system. We have debated what it actually is [debate_],"},{"line_number":6,"context_line":"and there are even t-shirts to poke fun at the fact that we don\u0027t have"},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"good answers."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"But this isn\u0027t what any of us wants. We\u0027d like to be able to point at"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"something and proudly tell people \"This is what we designed and implemented.\""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_a9aff829","line":7,"range":{"start_line":5,"start_character":27,"end_line":7,"end_character":13},"updated":"2016-09-09 14:42:56.000000000","message":"I think this line fits more into a footnote and referred back here (if you really want to refer) but I\u0027d just scratch it.\n\nHaving this in the introduction doesn\u0027t sounds fitting.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":2537,"name":"Nikhil Komawar","email":"nik.komawar@gmail.com","username":"nikhil-komawar"},"change_message_id":"a79fbd0156ea4edeccaa53f22a553d1cbdc32423","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":6,"context_line":"and there are even t-shirts to poke fun at the fact that we don\u0027t have"},{"line_number":7,"context_line":"good answers."},{"line_number":8,"context_line":""},{"line_number":9,"context_line":"But this isn\u0027t what any of us wants. We\u0027d like to be able to point at"},{"line_number":10,"context_line":"something and proudly tell people \"This is what we designed and implemented.\""},{"line_number":11,"context_line":""},{"line_number":12,"context_line":".. _debate: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095452.html"},{"line_number":13,"context_line":""}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_e9fbc045","line":10,"range":{"start_line":9,"start_character":37,"end_line":10,"end_character":77},"updated":"2016-09-09 14:42:56.000000000","message":"I agree and disagree here.\n\nFirstly, may be we should not use informal tone -- words like \u0027proudly\u0027 or \u0027tell people\u0027.\n\nMay be you can write this as --\n\nUsing the guidance from members of such a working group (or even SIG/Special Interest Group) one can find innovative solutions to adopt OpenStack in their environments to most optimal use. This results into a better experience for all the concerned.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":2537,"name":"Nikhil Komawar","email":"nik.komawar@gmail.com","username":"nikhil-komawar"},"change_message_id":"a79fbd0156ea4edeccaa53f22a553d1cbdc32423","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":14,"context_line":"Problem description"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":16,"context_line":""},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"For each individual project, design is a possibility. Neutron can tell you"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"they designed how their agents and drivers work. Nova can tell you that they"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"designed the way conductors handle communication with API nodes and compute"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"nodes. But when we start talking about how they interact with each other,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_c908bc30","line":17,"range":{"start_line":17,"start_character":0,"end_line":17,"end_character":52},"updated":"2016-09-09 14:42:56.000000000","message":"Individual projects are being designed based on the opinions of their active development community.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":2537,"name":"Nikhil Komawar","email":"nik.komawar@gmail.com","username":"nikhil-komawar"},"change_message_id":"a79fbd0156ea4edeccaa53f22a553d1cbdc32423","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":14,"context_line":"Problem description"},{"line_number":15,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":16,"context_line":""},{"line_number":17,"context_line":"For each individual project, design is a possibility. Neutron can tell you"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"they designed how their agents and drivers work. Nova can tell you that they"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"designed the way conductors handle communication with API nodes and compute"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"nodes. But when we start talking about how they interact with each other,"},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"it\u0027s clearly just a coincidental mash of de-facto standards and specs that"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_2d3e93b8","line":18,"range":{"start_line":17,"start_character":54,"end_line":18,"end_character":47},"updated":"2016-09-09 14:42:56.000000000","message":"Neutron agents and drivers have been designed in a specific way so is the case for Nova ...","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":2537,"name":"Nikhil Komawar","email":"nik.komawar@gmail.com","username":"nikhil-komawar"},"change_message_id":"a79fbd0156ea4edeccaa53f22a553d1cbdc32423","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":17,"context_line":"For each individual project, design is a possibility. Neutron can tell you"},{"line_number":18,"context_line":"they designed how their agents and drivers work. Nova can tell you that they"},{"line_number":19,"context_line":"designed the way conductors handle communication with API nodes and compute"},{"line_number":20,"context_line":"nodes. But when we start talking about how they interact with each other,"},{"line_number":21,"context_line":"it\u0027s clearly just a coincidental mash of de-facto standards and specs that"},{"line_number":22,"context_line":"don\u0027t help anyone make decisions when debugging, refactoring, or adding on"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"to the system."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_eda90be1","line":20,"range":{"start_line":20,"start_character":7,"end_line":20,"end_character":39},"updated":"2016-09-09 14:42:56.000000000","message":"The challenge is about integrating the pieces together and determining how they interact ...","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":2537,"name":"Nikhil Komawar","email":"nik.komawar@gmail.com","username":"nikhil-komawar"},"change_message_id":"a79fbd0156ea4edeccaa53f22a553d1cbdc32423","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":22,"context_line":"don\u0027t help anyone make decisions when debugging, refactoring, or adding on"},{"line_number":23,"context_line":"to the system."},{"line_number":24,"context_line":""},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"Oslo and cross-project initiatives have brought some peace and order to the"},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"implementation and engineering processes, but not to the design process. New"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"ideas still start largely in the project where they are needed most, and often"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":"conflict with similar decisions and ideas in other projects , including dlm, taskflow,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_ed802b49","line":25,"range":{"start_line":25,"start_character":48,"end_line":25,"end_character":68},"updated":"2016-09-09 14:42:56.000000000","message":"consistency and standardization","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":2537,"name":"Nikhil Komawar","email":"nik.komawar@gmail.com","username":"nikhil-komawar"},"change_message_id":"a79fbd0156ea4edeccaa53f22a553d1cbdc32423","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":23,"context_line":"to the system."},{"line_number":24,"context_line":""},{"line_number":25,"context_line":"Oslo and cross-project initiatives have brought some peace and order to the"},{"line_number":26,"context_line":"implementation and engineering processes, but not to the design process. New"},{"line_number":27,"context_line":"ideas still start largely in the project where they are needed most, and often"},{"line_number":28,"context_line":"conflict with similar decisions and ideas in other projects , including dlm, taskflow,"},{"line_number":29,"context_line":"tooz, service discovery, state machines, glance tasks, messaging patterns,"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_4d5597c4","line":26,"range":{"start_line":26,"start_character":42,"end_line":26,"end_character":71},"updated":"2016-09-09 14:42:56.000000000","message":"but there still exists a significant amount of code in various projects where the design constructs are very different.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"f80cc51853d956822db600ebb752465746743c12","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"of the time when things finally come to a head these things get done in a"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"piecemeal fashion, where it\u0027s half done here, 1/3 over there, 1/4 there,"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and 3/4 over there..., which to the outside looks like \u003carchitecture\u003e chaos,"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"because that\u0027s precisely what it is."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"And this isn\u0027t always a technical design problem. OpenStack, for instance,"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"isn\u0027t really a micro service architecture. Of course, it might look"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_d6bae66d","line":35,"updated":"2016-09-06 12:11:10.000000000","message":"+1","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":970,"name":"Dean Troyer","email":"dtroyer@gmail.com","username":"dtroyer"},"change_message_id":"041bb8928c41b522ebcc3b460d3baf39200d6fef","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"of the time when things finally come to a head these things get done in a"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"piecemeal fashion, where it\u0027s half done here, 1/3 over there, 1/4 there,"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and 3/4 over there..., which to the outside looks like \u003carchitecture\u003e chaos,"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"because that\u0027s precisely what it is."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"And this isn\u0027t always a technical design problem. OpenStack, for instance,"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"isn\u0027t really a micro service architecture. Of course, it might look"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_f283db00","line":35,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_b9d2b3d0","updated":"2016-09-08 18:48:43.000000000","message":"Duncan, I see the AWG as the place to keep track of things like your taskflow example and be able to communicate that to the rest of OpenStack.  Had AWG existed before Cinder started that work it may have been involved at that time to help evaluate options, not to dictate them.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":1207,"name":"Duncan Thomas","email":"duncan.thomas@gmail.com","username":"duncan-thomas"},"change_message_id":"f132c767116adfff62c9710a398ef616fbcc9251","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":32,"context_line":"of the time when things finally come to a head these things get done in a"},{"line_number":33,"context_line":"piecemeal fashion, where it\u0027s half done here, 1/3 over there, 1/4 there,"},{"line_number":34,"context_line":"and 3/4 over there..., which to the outside looks like \u003carchitecture\u003e chaos,"},{"line_number":35,"context_line":"because that\u0027s precisely what it is."},{"line_number":36,"context_line":""},{"line_number":37,"context_line":"And this isn\u0027t always a technical design problem. OpenStack, for instance,"},{"line_number":38,"context_line":"isn\u0027t really a micro service architecture. Of course, it might look"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_b9d2b3d0","line":35,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_d6bae66d","updated":"2016-09-06 12:34:26.000000000","message":"It\u0027s worth noting however, that much of this \u0027chaos\u0027 exists because ideas turned out to not work out. Cinder was an early adopter of taskflow, but decided against it after using it in a few places, because it turned out to make debugging and maintenance harder for most contributors. The api parts that were converted are mostly still using taskflow, because conversion to taskflow was a herculean effort, and removing it without breaking things will be a similar effort - the cost is not currently worth the gain. We\u0027ve a similar debate going on at the moment about oslo versioned objects and whether we use them everywhere or only where they are passed over RPCs.\n\nIf the AWG starts handing out \u0027thou must do XYZ\u0027 then they will quickly become an obstacle to the project teams, not an asset. It is very easy to say how things /should/ work, without being the person who not only needs to make them work, but also keep them working in future.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":308,"name":"Thierry Carrez","email":"thierry@openstack.org","username":"ttx"},"change_message_id":"f80cc51853d956822db600ebb752465746743c12","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":69,"context_line":"Also note that this is an advisory group intended to gather information"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"and produce recommendations.  No new authority for enforcing those is"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"to be conferred onto this group, however accepted recommendations will"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"be expected to be followed for new work whenever possible."},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"Mission"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"-------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_76bd9a67","line":72,"updated":"2016-09-06 12:11:10.000000000","message":"alternate wording: \"however some of the workgroup recommendations may end up being adopted by existing governance bodies and enforced by them\". For example I could totally see the TC taking an AWG recommendation around base services and retrofitting it into its project teams requirements document.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":1207,"name":"Duncan Thomas","email":"duncan.thomas@gmail.com","username":"duncan-thomas"},"change_message_id":"f132c767116adfff62c9710a398ef616fbcc9251","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":69,"context_line":"Also note that this is an advisory group intended to gather information"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"and produce recommendations.  No new authority for enforcing those is"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"to be conferred onto this group, however accepted recommendations will"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"be expected to be followed for new work whenever possible."},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"Mission"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"-------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_dcf765f3","line":72,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_76bd9a67","updated":"2016-09-06 12:34:26.000000000","message":"Definitely prefer the alternate wording","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":970,"name":"Dean Troyer","email":"dtroyer@gmail.com","username":"dtroyer"},"change_message_id":"041bb8928c41b522ebcc3b460d3baf39200d6fef","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":69,"context_line":"Also note that this is an advisory group intended to gather information"},{"line_number":70,"context_line":"and produce recommendations.  No new authority for enforcing those is"},{"line_number":71,"context_line":"to be conferred onto this group, however accepted recommendations will"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"be expected to be followed for new work whenever possible."},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"Mission"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"-------"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_32a1c394","line":72,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_dcf765f3","updated":"2016-09-08 18:48:43.000000000","message":"+2 on the alternative","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":6926,"name":"Bogdan Dobrelya","email":"bdobreli@redhat.com","username":"bogdando"},"change_message_id":"9b75cf66713c9090d8855c95ec7d98703e6b2901","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":71,"context_line":"to be conferred onto this group, however accepted recommendations will"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"be expected to be followed for new work whenever possible."},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"Mission"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"-------"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":""},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"Be the recognized forum of expertise on the design and architecture of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_87b945ec","line":74,"updated":"2016-09-05 09:05:38.000000000","message":"I\u0027d like we to outline more specific mission goals, like: \n\n* Rebuild Openstack to follow 12https://12factor.net/ in order to join Micro SOA world.\n* Enforce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle in design and watch it\u0027s been abided.\n* Ensure API contracts of components well defined and understood by all sides","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":1207,"name":"Duncan Thomas","email":"duncan.thomas@gmail.com","username":"duncan-thomas"},"change_message_id":"f132c767116adfff62c9710a398ef616fbcc9251","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":71,"context_line":"to be conferred onto this group, however accepted recommendations will"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"be expected to be followed for new work whenever possible."},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"Mission"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"-------"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":""},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"Be the recognized forum of expertise on the design and architecture of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_1c1d4d0f","line":74,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_87b945ec","updated":"2016-09-06 12:34:26.000000000","message":"I dislike the work \u0027enforce\u0027 anywhere in the mission. \n\nSeveral bits of the 12 factor principles (e.g. logging) go against openstack best practice and are, in my opinion, substantially inferior to what we already have.\n\nThe mission statement of the WG should *not* contain this sort of detail, since it quickly becomes outdated. The mission below seems to cover things quite well.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":6926,"name":"Bogdan Dobrelya","email":"bdobreli@redhat.com","username":"bogdando"},"change_message_id":"8d950ad06b4b4092442d869e192ad4b822d011c2","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":71,"context_line":"to be conferred onto this group, however accepted recommendations will"},{"line_number":72,"context_line":"be expected to be followed for new work whenever possible."},{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"Mission"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"-------"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":""},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"Be the recognized forum of expertise on the design and architecture of"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"9a89bdaa_87a4e557","line":74,"in_reply_to":"9a89bdaa_87b945ec","updated":"2016-09-05 09:15:13.000000000","message":"Please note that the enforce/ensure terms I put here apply only to new and ongoing *design flows* in Openstack. This has nothing to decisions making. My understanding for that is if TC were a High Court to enforce Law, the WG then to become a Police to enforce Law\u0027s abided across architects and devs.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":6488,"name":"Clint Byrum","email":"clint@fewbar.com","username":"clint-fewbar"},"change_message_id":"8cd829e194d22f3b8fde46d0813a0ed19e93e457","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":73,"context_line":""},{"line_number":74,"context_line":"Mission"},{"line_number":75,"context_line":"-------"},{"line_number":76,"context_line":""},{"line_number":77,"context_line":"Be the recognized forum of expertise on the design and architecture of"},{"line_number":78,"context_line":"OpenStack and provide guidance and resources to the Technical Committee"},{"line_number":79,"context_line":"and the entire OpenStack community on architectural matters."}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"1ac06dbe_6ae32a06","line":76,"updated":"2016-08-21 16:25:39.000000000","message":"I like this simplified mission.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"},{"author":{"_account_id":6488,"name":"Clint Byrum","email":"clint@fewbar.com","username":"clint-fewbar"},"change_message_id":"8cd829e194d22f3b8fde46d0813a0ed19e93e457","unresolved":false,"context_lines":[{"line_number":80,"context_line":""},{"line_number":81,"context_line":"Implementation"},{"line_number":82,"context_line":"\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d"},{"line_number":83,"context_line":""},{"line_number":84,"context_line":"- Document the existing architecture and relationship of OpenStack projects."},{"line_number":85,"context_line":""},{"line_number":86,"context_line":"- Provide information and guidance to the TC and the OpenStack community on"}],"source_content_type":"text/x-rst","patch_set":3,"id":"1ac06dbe_caf21ed2","line":83,"updated":"2016-08-21 16:25:39.000000000","message":"Thanks very much for adding implementation details. This will definitely help us get started.","commit_id":"8fdf62e521e14b284866a33c91998b105cf11511"}]}